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DIY Foil Kites

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Schietwedder
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Re: DIY Foil Kites

Postby Schietwedder » Tue Jan 04, 2022 6:18 pm

Section 1 outer skin done (just skins with straps ribs to be sewn in in step two
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Rein de Vries
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Re: DIY Foil Kites

Postby Rein de Vries » Tue Jan 04, 2022 9:53 pm

Great work Niklas!

Your stitching order is little different then mine. I tape the skins, ribs, straps and profiles together and stitch them all in one go and build cell by cell. This is not to easy, especially on the cells with the vents, but it works fine. The pro is there is only one stitching line connecting decks and profiles which is, I think, the most air tight and the strongest. Another difference is on the straps. I made them as one horizontal piece through the kite, and see you do it in cell by cell pieces. A con of my method is the bridle connection band has to go through the strap, hence a cut has to be made in the strap.

How is your experience on the double stich line in your method. Are you losing strength there? And is it more easily done?

Thanks!

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Schietwedder
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Re: DIY Foil Kites

Postby Schietwedder » Wed Jan 05, 2022 10:10 am

Hi Rein,
The double seam method has proven more accurate for me as I only have to align two pieces of cloth every time I sew something.
The strength and airtightness is no issue as I sew the first seam connecting the skins on the very outside (2-3mm from the edge) and the second seam is then at the 7mm distance from the outside so the first seam is not carrying any load or airtightness when the kite is done.

Especially on the front around the profile nose you will love this method.

The other thing with the straps: for me its not 100% clear how you do it to counteract the bend in the straps when looking from below the kite. If it would be a rectangular kite, you could use one strap going trhough but if the strap is bend when looking from below always one side is more tight than the other so I don´t know how accurate this method is compared to the patterns made from the zero skin tension lower skin patterns.
Or do youhave this bent shape in your strap just that it´s not cut through at every cell? especially in the tips you have this effect in the center its probably neglegible.

BR Niklas
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Rein de Vries
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Re: DIY Foil Kites

Postby Rein de Vries » Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:28 pm

:smash:
IMG20220123180502.jpg
:dance:
IMG20220123180329.jpg
:advise:
IMG20220123180258.jpg
:D

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Schietwedder
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Re: DIY Foil Kites

Postby Schietwedder » Mon Jan 24, 2022 9:12 am

Nice! That one will be pretty damn light :)

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Re: DIY Foil Kites

Postby kitexpert » Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:11 pm

I've practically always sewed my kites cell by cell. Quite often using two sewing machines, one with thinner thread for attaching ribs to panels and then other one with stronger thread to attach new cell. This final seam goes a bit further from the edge so there will be a doubled seam, but it is not that dangerous if seams go on top of each other.

Depending how big kite is you can sew it in two, three or even four pieces and then join them. Last seam is best to have in the middle because there is the widest cell.

This method makes it easier because you never have three layers of fabric to sew. Actually to have three is so difficult I don't see it even possible, at least if you don't use tape. In foil kites using tape is not usual but of course it is possible.

I don't get how tension straps could be continuous and making cuts to them sounds a bit suspicious. Also if sewing is not done cell by cell attachment of bridle points may be compromised. They should start as V shaped from the rib and then "fold" around seam allowance before coming out. Extra back and forth stitching is usually used in these points.

This is the method also gliders use, it is the strongest possible. However it may be an overkill for kites and there is easier and also lighter ways to do it. This strength issue also depends on how many attachment points kite has and what is the intended use of it. If kite has few bridles and it is meant for high wind use also it is best to do it properly.

You certainly can make kites differently, there is no absolute correct way. On the other hand quality kites are quite similarly made, so IDK if it is worth it to invent a wheel again.

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Re: DIY Foil Kites

Postby Schietwedder » Sun Jan 30, 2022 12:46 am

Central 5 of 41 cells.... Already half of the living room filled.... slowly reaching paraglider sizes :D maybe it's good for some soaring too
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Re: DIY Foil Kites

Postby kitexpert » Sun Jan 30, 2022 3:29 pm

Schietwedder wrote:
Sun Jan 30, 2022 12:46 am
Central 5 of 41 cells.... Already half of the living room filled.... slowly reaching paraglider sizes :D maybe it's good for some soaring too
I just now noticed this one, it looks quite good. I hope parameters you have chosen are correct enough. If something is a bit worrying it is that 2% camber which is quite high.

Basic things seems to be well designed: cell count-air intakes-diagonal ribs-line row locations and how they connect to each other.

That bridle line row thing is not that essential because even though they come together in SP distance from the kite (esp. in this kite) is so long, and mixer has also margin to adapt. AoA is not fixed anyway and line row tensions can be - and often have to be - adjusted when testing the kite. This is simple.

However your primary lines look too short, or at least you are really pushing the envelope. But it is easy to make another plan.

It is also good to think how to cascade primaries, now it is 3-2-2, could it be some other way? That wingtip looks now a bit tight, but lengthening primary level helps at least to some extent.

In SP there is quite a lot adjustment for cell width, and because these affect to bridle line locations (angles) they are worth studying. Also different ways to design the bridle (using sec bridle vs just many levels or using straight bridle or paraglider etc., but these are a bit hard to explain what they do in practice) affects quite a lot line lengths in different parts of kite.

Good luck!

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Re: DIY Foil Kites

Postby kitexpert » Sun Jan 30, 2022 3:48 pm

Image

For example smth like that, a 15min design though

(Edit. I noticed this design doesn't really match to the D-ribs on the wingtips. One example showing that the structure of the kite and the bridle should be designed at the same time.)
Last edited by kitexpert on Sun Jan 30, 2022 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Schietwedder
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Re: DIY Foil Kites

Postby Schietwedder » Sun Jan 30, 2022 7:35 pm

Yes the camber is quite high, the profile moment though is still fine no big difference to the profiles I´ve been using before which fly super stable.
On the 6-9-11m I´ve used 1.8 perc. of camber and in the big sizes I added some more in the mixer always so I put it in the profile directly this time. Stability was still fine. Let´s see the kite is designed for laminar light summer conditions on my surfboard.

Yes the cascades I played around quite a bit, what I have for now "looked" best from the previous versions, and yes if primaries are to short I can make a new bridle but lets see. (brilde is already done)
The angles are not steeper as on the previous designs.

Thanks for the input!


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