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DIY Foil Kites

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Nem0
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Re: DIY Foil Kites

Postby Nem0 » Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:04 pm

Schietwedder wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:27 pm
Here is the video of the build and first tests.



If you want to build yours too contact me at info@schietwedderunlimited.de and I see if I can help you with plans, patterns, materials, Liros lines, etc.

Best regards, Niklas
What kind of wood did you used for your bar?
Is it solid enough?

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Schietwedder
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Re: DIY Foil Kites

Postby Schietwedder » Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:40 pm

Hi Nem0,

I used Ash wood ("Esche" in German), really strong wood and robust even if you drill holes inside.
My father did some 5mm canoe paddles from it and it´s amazing how stiff they still are in the blades, probably could´ve went with 2-3mm.

You only have to coat it couple of times with epoxy, marine clear paint because it is very absorbent to water.

My bar has a diameter of 22-25mm in the thinnest sections and thicker in the midle part where the holes are at.

If I would to it again I maybe would make it even thicker in the middle but not as high so when you steer the depower rope does not block/bend so much. But not really an issue with handling it just wears the depower rope a bit more. I use technora covers from Liros on all my depower dyneema ropes so they last about 3-4 times as long.
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Schietwedder
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Re: DIY Foil Kites

Postby Schietwedder » Wed Sep 02, 2020 5:26 pm

Meanwhile working on a 8.5m version of the 12m

Data:
Flat Area: 8,368m²
Projected Area: 6,687m²
Flat Wingspan: 6,56m
Flat AR: 5,143
Projected AR: 3,861
Cells: 33
Internal straps at A,B,C, LE nylon battens (2.4mm Ratioparts)
5 closed cell vents
Bridle designed for 16m lines/25m with a 9m high V-option)
Bridle lines: Liros DSL/PPSL
Flying Lines: Liros DC Pro

Changes compared to the 12m:
No 3d shaping this time to safe time and effort. Not sure if it helped much in the 12m)
Reduced cell count (36->33)
Added D-Ribs at 4 cells where bridle entries are around 45°
Increased profile thickness as it is for higher, more gusty winds
Now used SP only also for billow.
Maybe adding mini ribs, still considering but added to the print files to have the option.
A bit less projected area/more canopy curve
Attachment points at 96% and 100% at TE to play around with

Lighter Materials: Skytex 27/32 hard for the ribs and structure
(Not that it was an issue with the 12m weighting 1.92 Kg incl. bridle and mixer with Skytex 40, but it is out of stock at my local dealer so I try something lighter, maybe it will be good to have small and light kite which loops fast for light winds also when considering snow kiting or foiling with a big wing.

Best Regards, Niklas
Attachments
851.JPG
853.JPG
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855.JPG

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Re: DIY Foil Kites

Postby Rein de Vries » Sat Sep 12, 2020 12:43 pm

Very nice to see, curious allready to how it will fly. Smart idea to only add dribs to the cells that have high angled bridles, it will surely help to keep the shape. I choose to do ribs all over the kite, which is obviously a lot of work. At the same time, I think it adds a lot of stiffness to the structure, which is also an important added value for performance and steering control. As it is anyhow allready a lot of work with the straps, LE battens, transversal shaping etc. I just take it for granted and go the whole mile with many cells and also ribs. I suspect that one of the main aspects that eventually deliver the improved performance of the Sonic 3 as compared to the Sonic 2 has to do with this inner structure, which is obviously more prominent on the S3.

As we have a good collaboration, we also talked some more about the billow in relation to the strap tension and the lower / upper skin shape. In finding the balance between retaining strap tension on the one hand and keeping a clean upper skin on the other hand I came to the following billow values choice on my 5m2 kite. The values are close to the values used on the 12 of Niklas but taper off to zero at the LE and TE as Surfplan supports it. I hope it will work! :-)
billow final.jpg

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Re: DIY Foil Kites

Postby Freddyforlaunch » Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:37 pm

Hi,
Some time ago, I built my first kite, a 2-line 1.2m2 trainer foil. With AR5 and 20% thick MH92 profile. Would any experienced builder be so kind to give some points of improvement for a next build, or even for tweaking this one?
TrainerKitePics.pdf
(76.45 KiB) Downloaded 23 times
Observations are that it doesn't respond quickly to steering inputs and the tips are prone to folding inward.
Would be much appreciated!

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Re: DIY Foil Kites

Postby Schietwedder » Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:21 pm

Well the list is long, what could be with bridled kites.
I don´t have any experience with 2 line kites, but can imagine they steer slower but with more power because you can´t steer with brakes (4 line traction/handle kites)/AoA differential (depower foils).
You steer only by altering the lift forces/bending the canopy.
There is though a lot of 2 liner kites you see on beaches that turn exeptionally well.
The towpoint is quite far forward and the canopy quite unsupported in the back at your kite, at least what I can see from the pictures, has to do something with it.

For my first steps in kite design a few years ago I read the Foilmaker manual for the software a couple of times, and it helps.
It is written though for 4 line handlekites mostly but most aspects transfer to modern depower foilkite design, not all of them.
There is an appendix called "symptoms and remedies" which cover the basic errors in most first diy designs.

http://www.bicycle.eclipse.co.uk/fm/manual.pdf

If you want to design and make more modern kites, the rest can be found in this thread (mostly) at least what aspects matter/could play a role. How you design it in the end and which values work best for what size/design/concept is the true art of designing a well working kite. When you get a generally well working kite and thought you reached your goal, then comes the fine tuning giving it to a lot of riders getting their feedback, not only your own opinion. It´s the most fun part of the design I think how much you can learn from good riders. A lot of times the kite can be tweaked quite a lot with the bridle and mixer.
Pictures work up to a point.
It is important to make good pictures of the kite in air maybe with a drone even, compare it to the CAD data (canopy curve/twist/shape/billow/wrinkles/structure/profile shape), tell tales can help detecting flow seperation (on top sail mostly), but most important input from experienced (foilkite) riders.
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Freddyforlaunch
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Re: DIY Foil Kites

Postby Freddyforlaunch » Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:38 am

These are very valuable tips! Thanks. This kite only has two rows of bridles, so indeed is unsupported at the back of the canopy. I will add a third row in the back and then will move the tow point more backwards. Now I also notice it is far forward from the pictures. From the kiter perspective I could not see this.

I did read the manual, however that was after sewing this kite.

One day I would like to make the modern kites you are building, but I have the feeling there will be many steps in between.

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Re: DIY Foil Kites

Postby André Mantovani » Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:36 pm

what software did you use?

Freddyforlaunch
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Re: DIY Foil Kites

Postby Freddyforlaunch » Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:03 am

SurfPlan hobby

Rein de Vries
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Re: DIY Foil Kites

Postby Rein de Vries » Fri Oct 02, 2020 9:34 pm

Some progress pictures on my 5m. It shows how I choose to do the LE battens, transversal 3d shaping, straps and mini ribs. :)
Kite.jpg
kite2.jpg


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