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The Pansh A15, an A18 review

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PugetSoundKiter
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Re: The Pansh A15, an A18 review

Postby PugetSoundKiter » Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:21 am

foilholio wrote:
Changes now from stock I have are 3:1 mixer, no C bridles, move and shortened 2 tip B bridles to C (yes technically some of C then still exists lol), shorten Z...

So implementation. I reinstate a 421 mixer and use the old B pulley to run the A funk...

Would you like a mixer pic to see what it converts to. You know a pic is a 1000 words and all...
So the mod is a like the speed1 system, except the A15 C-bridle is removed and the Speed1 C connections move to the A15 B connections?
A15-Mod.jpg
A15-Mod.jpg (24.85 KiB) Viewed 595 times
Pictures are easier :think:

The Speed1 B-row is very close to the leading edge & A-row, where as the A15 B-row is very far away from the leading edge & A-row. The A15 C-row is so very far away from the leading edge and close to the trailing edge & Z-row, that it has little use for tension/lift, and the Z-row/lines have enough camber change/effect that the C-row could be deleted?

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PugetSoundKiter
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Re: The Pansh A15, an A18 review

Postby PugetSoundKiter » Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:39 pm

...which makes me wonder if a simpler 2:1 might work, be easier to tune and reduce bar depower throw
A15-Mod-2.jpg
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foilholio
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Re: The Pansh A15, an A18 review

Postby foilholio » Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:26 pm

Yes you got the first picture right. Except minor detail I connect the pulley to the pulley top/hole and not the top of the B main.

Also don't forget my moving 2 tip bridles from B to C and shortening. This is very important.

Second picture, if you read back is basically what Kiterfromgermany tried ( he still used C though). He gave up on it for I think the reasons I postulated. That is it won't increase camber so will be less stable depowered. Sorry yes I said mixer that increases camber is more stable. That is because they can have a reducing camber phase. It both reduces and increases camber, very confusing sorry.
PugetSoundKiter wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:21 am
The Speed1 B-row is very close to the leading edge & A-row, where as the A15 B-row is very far away from the leading edge & A-row. The A15 C-row is so very far away from the leading edge and close to the trailing edge & Z-row, that it has little use for tension/lift, and the Z-row/lines have enough camber change/effect that the C-row could be deleted?
Yes. But also could be said I tested it and it works L-)

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Re: The Pansh A15, an A18 review

Postby foilholio » Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:35 pm

Quite liking my mod more the more I use it.

I think maybe there is a bit more of a tendency for the tips to collapse when first inflating. I know when I first did the mod the tips could collapse and then would not open. I moved the tip bridles, as there existing placement was obviously wrong, adjusted their lengths and all was good. The kite has no issue once inflated, but I think I will play with the tip area a little more.

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Re: The Pansh A15, an A18 review

Postby foilholio » Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:25 am

I haven't been using the kite a lot but enough to notice some things. When you lose C, Z becomes very critical. If you imagine without Z engaged then normally C would then hold, without C then it is onto B. This gives a pronounced effect that if Z is slack you lose more power than you would have with still having C, simply because less of the airfoil is being pulled into the airflow. C Also helps quite a bit to hold the airfoil shape for a better L/D, if it is tuned for that.

I have started adjusting the kite again, modding it further. I have two problems, kite collapses on a side if flying on A lower in the window and then I would also like to improve the L/D. The collapsing may not be entirely or at all a C removal thing. I have had many foils that do this and can live quite easily by just holding the bar in a bit. I think fixing some AoA at the tip by attaching the B to A might lessen or fix it. My thinking is that the tip seems to initiate the collapse so prevent it and so prevent the rest collapsing. I could arc A more, but don't really want to lessen the PA and with it performance.

I have so far added extensions to Z longest at the tip at about 6 inches going in 5 bridles reducing about an inch each. I then shortened Z about 2 inchs and removed a shortening loop from each or the 2 C attachments leaving only 1 attachment at the very tip shortened. This has gained a significant L/D improvement, the kite flys very much further forward. I haven't seen a degradation in the ability to open the kite. Relieving Z at the tip I guess allows more tension on C, hence I could then make them longer.

Reasoning for lengthening Z at the tip is I could see it getting much too pulled. Effect would stall the tips and also cause them to potentially collapse. I think I will lengthen them further and adjust the graduations a bit. It is hard to see from flyer perspective the exact lengths to smoothen things out. I can see now that bridles pulling the canopy to align with the sewn shape, gives the smoothest shape and should in theory give the best L/D "if" the sewn shape is designed like that.

I think the concept of 3 bridle row kites is quite promising. The placement of the A15 bridles attachments is not quite right for it but still seems to work quite well. Ultimately I may alter a few of these as well.


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