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Concept'air 12m Pulsion kite

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Regis-de-giens
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Re: Concept'air 12m Pulsion kite

Postby Regis-de-giens » Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:54 am

Thank you TomW, always pleasant to read this feedback :allbegood:

IMO Pulsion 12m will have a LOWER end than sonic2 13m (in the sense of lower wind to stay upwind at reasonnable speed, while sonic 2 13m will always go faster as soon as you have a bit more wind) ; you should give us your weight and foil area if I can try to bet your low end; upwind angle should be approx the same as you will be able to ride slower (personal opinion). 20 m is fine and is my prefered length on the 12m ; 25 m (previously used and up to 29m and still on my 15m) would allow you to save a bit comfort in low end (the difference on lag is not so significant on the Pulsion because the rear line tension is higher than sonic2 so it can support longer lines like a LEI.

If you can drive a sonic2, Pulsion will appear really easy, no special technique (very close to HL and even more stable at the zenith) and Pulsion almost never dies at the extrem window like Sonic2 or others high aspect ratio in light wind: you can most of the time get out of this dangerous situation by send the kite upward without backstall (weight and good turn effect);

Its power during the waterstart loop will surprise you at the first trials vs sonic2 but once you know it, it leads to easier waterstart in marginal wind; working the kite in lulls is also more efficicent than sonic2.

2 drawbacks IMO:
- the comfort at higher end vs sonic2 , even 13m I think ;
- more fragile in case of front crash (if you choose 27gr or 32 gr for intercells), no Ultralight not adapted to beginners or in case of agressive soil at the launch.
-less speed at high upwind angle, less hangtime "old school type" if you like to jump (but still ... I did the best jumps of my life with a TT and my poor jump level...)

But it will ease the transitions in low wind thanks to its stability with slack lines and long time before it drops in the water. That can make you envisage to follow the swell downwind in low winds . Relaunch is also far better (if you relaunch within 2-3 minutes at least).

Now in complement of the HL 9m, you could envisage a Pulsion 15m; less fun in turns and swell, but it is my prefered kite on flat water below 7 knots, with even more power and same stability (Pulsion 18m is a bit less stable because higher ratio, hence not necessary for light weight riders)
Last edited by Regis-de-giens on Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

tomtom
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Re: Concept'air 12m Pulsion kite

Postby tomtom » Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:47 am

Hi Regis, thanks for all reviews! - i also feel honest and knowledge. I just want to ask - about HF wing size you use to keep things in perspective. BTW for me 90kg on Onda 633 - sonic 2 11 limit is zenith stability and not sheer power of kite. I can ride - problem is going to water and not to drop kite. As long as kite fly ok on zenith it is actually too much power and too violent powerspike. Maybe 13 is slower and has gentler power development. I rode strapless.

Regis-de-giens
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Re: Concept'air 12m Pulsion kite

Postby Regis-de-giens » Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:30 pm

:wink: thanks also;

I did not try the Onda but it visually seem close to the Ketos 1200 cm 2 I have ; for my weight , I think that the optimum wing to ride with comfort in marginal wind is around 1000-1100 cm2 but with a higher AR than the Ketos 1200 cm2. For example I would get a better low end with a shape like Ketos Freeride 2 XL that I tried this automn . Indeed the planning with the 1200 cm2 is really early but it has so much drag that speed generation is a bit limited to get more inertia , line tension and ease the jibes and lulls. I get almost the same result with my smaller proto Easy Ketos, around 850 cm2 with higher AR. In your case 1200 cm2 like your Onda is a must in low wind IMO. Very thin lines count also.

The weight of the rider has a huge impact (it is not really fair in that sense ...) ; so comparing your optimum to mine is not easy with your +50% compared to me. But even with my 60 kg, I need more than 11 m2 to get up in my own low end ; my limiting factor becomes the ability to lift the ass from water (provided that the kite is very stable otherwise it is the limiting factor in on-shore winds).

I would just add that the stability limit of the sonic 2 need more wind than Pulsion; hence if you use a more stable kite, you would go in the water with lower wind, then you would need more surface than 11m2 ; given your weight I have no doubt on this need of larger surface.

Generally, it is really difficult to compare low ends limits between different riders reports on forums, since it is hard to assess if we actually speak of the same wind speed (even with the best unbiased intentions, it is just so hard/subjective to give a speed number below 6 knots) ; what I can just tell you is that when I ride comfortably with the Pu 15m (a bit more limit with the Pu12m but still possible) , I mean real ride with the 850 cm2 wing, say 3 times the wind speed, upwind, transitions, toe side, and some fun stuff on the hydrofoil ... then at that moment some (several) 80 kg guys with a sonic2 15m nor speed4 lotus 15m barely go to the water and then cannot waterstart during hours. And when the wind drops even lower I can still save 0.5 to 1 knot with the Pu 15m plus ketos 1200 cm2. It is not just me , another rider came with a Pulsion 12m, 70 kg, 1200 cm2 custom high AR wing, and was also able to ride at its second attempt (and relaunch from water ! I have a video of this if you want).

I hate to say THIS kite is better than THIS kite and I try to never fall in this trap . Overall it is rarelly true for any kite even if articulated briddle systems :wink: . That is why I tell you that Sonic2 will go faster as soon as you can ride with it. But now focussing specifically on the pure low-end and plug-and-play in marginal wind, I have no doubt on this light Pulsion, from my experience, other owners (and rider applausing from the beach... so nice). No pretension here on my skills just try to put some smiles on the forum.
Last edited by Regis-de-giens on Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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gl
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Re: Concept'air 12m Pulsion kite

Postby gl » Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:19 pm

Hi Regis. I also wanted to say thanks for your reviews of the Pulsion. I have been really enjoying the 12 meter. I was wondering if you have ever tried a 9 meter? If you have I would appreciate any thoughts you have on the kite. I also notice that there is an 8 meter Pulsion S. Have you tried it? I will be asking Ben about it soon as well. Thanks.

slowboat
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Re: Concept'air 12m Pulsion kite

Postby slowboat » Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:37 pm

gl wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:19 pm
Hi Regis. I also wanted to say thanks for your reviews of the Pulsion. I have been really enjoying the 12 meter. I was wondering if you have ever tried a 9 meter? If you have I would appreciate any thoughts you have on the kite. I also notice that there is an 8 meter Pulsion S. Have you tried it? I will be asking Ben about it soon as well. Thanks.
I have the same thoughts. Got the Pulsion 12, largely based on Regis’s writing (others have stated otherwise but I think is 100 % unbiased), honest and accurate. Love the Pulsion 12 for ease of use and the fact that it stays in the air, period. Better than any kite I have seen. I also have a lot of confidence in Ben at conceptair.

I am also curious about the Pulsion 9 and maybe comparison to the Ozone Hyperlink 9. Please don’t bring up the Soul. 😀. I am 70 kg with 1100 cm surf foil. Looking to cover 9-14 knots.
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Regis-de-giens (Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:31 am)
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jakemoore
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Re: Concept'air 12m Pulsion kite

Postby jakemoore » Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:16 pm

I can’t compare to Pulsion but 9m Hyperlink in regular cloth does work for me in those winds on 30m thin lines and Levitaz Cruizer (900 cm2 with good speed and low drag).

However the low end of the HL is not limited by its power but by my ability to body drag out and keep the kite in the air.

Our sensors reads 8 knots on a South steady thermal wind and I can ride. 8 knots on a North wind and between what I believe are deeper lulls and more onshore wind almost certainly I will have a wet kite before getting up on foil. Water weight is a game over in such light wind.

No doubt Regis video demonstrate Pulsion stays in the air in lighter wind.
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TomW
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Re: Concept'air 12m Pulsion kite

Postby TomW » Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:12 pm

Hi Regis,
I'm 76kg, but ride mostly with fullsuit. So I'm probably at 80kg in gear. On a Moses 633, which I don't find draggy at all compared to 590 and 550 wing. I'm strapless and not interested in jumping as I'm getting up in years and my body really can't take it.
I also find my low wind limit is if kite can drag me up onto the board, I can get up flying on foil.

I have only used the Sonic 13m 12 times. Never dropped it in the water. Used it in winds that it just was flying and also top end. If wind is 10 knots solid, HL 9 is fine and I'll take it.
So I'm talking about 7/8 knots to 12 knots for Sonic 13. Winds are usually blowing in these kind of ranges here. 7-10/12 or 10-14 or 14-18 or 18-22.
I've found Sonic to be easy to keep in the air, it's never tried to overfly. Its negative is the slow turn, lag, not good on swell.
I'm not racing so don't care about upwind speed or Vmg.

The Pulsion 12 sounds attractive, I'm sceptical about 15m as I am looking for more dynamic playful kite.
I know I might be wishing for the impossible.
You seem to confirm what I want: same range as Sonic ( the lower end and sweet spot), less technical flying skills ( plug and play), faster more direct steering for fun in transitions and small swell.

Regis-de-giens
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Re: Concept'air 12m Pulsion kite

Postby Regis-de-giens » Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:27 pm

Merci merci a tous.. :oops: in two days I turn from annoyed to proud. Thanks for public messages.

@TomW : Exactly , Good summary , and i confirm again that you will be able to swimm backward more easily with your two hands free from the bar to ease and shorten the swimm-away from shore..it almost has autozenith in 5 knots. One last comment to give you some "hesitation biscuits" ... ok, 12m is really a toy when it turns. For example it turns far better and quicker than my ex-speed4 lotus even in ... 10m2 . Far quicker. AND ... the 15m (even if slower than 12m) is still agile and quick compared to the overall 15 m and even some 12 m. Hard to choose ... the 70kg friend i talked about previously (owning the 12m and able to ride before sonic2 15m, just for memory) tried my 15m that day. He felt the difference and prefered the 15m in these 6-7 knots flat water. However for financial reasons he cannot afford 12 and 15 and wants to keep the higher end and versatility of the 12m . Just to illustrate ...

About the 9m (sorry for the long development but I think details are important for accuracy) : I have just tried it once (standard cloth) 3 minutes static on the beach. Even more fun obviously , and quick turn and stability in front of buildings vs 12m ... But i can report the souvenir I have of a good friend of mine (Bozzo of lesfoilzs.com, 70kg I think) who bought this 9m as his first Pusion, normal cloth, having several foilkites in the past. He was impressed by the fun and low end he could reach with only 9m, even if beginner in HF. He loved it for monthes including small waves and progressed rapidly, strapless practice. I can try to recover the wind range he had if you want.

Then (even if initially not thinking he would need and appreciate better low end), I convinced him to upgrade to pulsion 12m with his improving HF level to discover marginal winds; so he changed to the pulsion 12 S (the one I tried when Ben came to France, a bit higher ratio than Pulsion), plus some CA waves in different sizes that he also loves for surfing. He sold the 9m to one of his best friend to learn HF (good sign of its confidence). After he got more experiences with his 12S, I remember our discussions about the 9m ( I was hesitating to buy one as well for my snowkite in mountains) : the pu 9m is incredibly stable and efficient and fun ; he only found-out that it pulls hard in its high end (narrower comfort wind range vs his new pu12S which is a bit more higher ratio). Side note : Aspect Ratio of Pulsion is decreasing with surface.

I cannot tell more on the 9m. I also met a guy that has not kept it a long time (i do not know the reason why). I think standard cloth is more coherent on the 9m (cheaper and more robust for potential higher dynamics in crashes).

Hopes that helps, Good night.
Last edited by Regis-de-giens on Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

gl
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Re: Concept'air 12m Pulsion kite

Postby gl » Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:43 pm

Thanks Regis. No need to ask about the wind range on the 9 meter for me. I spoke with Ben today and he is sending me a 9 meter to try this coming week. Based on your observations it sounds exactly what I'm looking for. I will report back once I have tried it. I will not be able to hydrofoil for a few more months until the lake is unfrozen. I will use it on the snow as soon as I get it. I did ask him about the Pulsion 8S and he was not totally satisfied with the performance yet. Although he did say it was working fine. I did not ask him for more detail than that. As a result of that conversation that is why I decided to go with the Pulsion 9 in standard cloth. I tend to use the kites in the lower end of their wind range, so the extra wind range of the 8s it's not really necessary for me.

Regis-de-giens
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Re: Concept'air 12m Pulsion kite

Postby Regis-de-giens » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:33 am

slowboat wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:37 pm
I am also curious about the Pulsion 9 and maybe comparison to the Ozone Hyperlink 9. Please don’t bring up the Soul. 😀. I am 70 kg with 1100 cm surf foil. Looking to cover 9-14 knots.
You will easily cover this wind range with your 1100cm2 and the Pulsion 9m std cloth IMO. I would say 7-8 to 16-18 with comfort and standard bar.


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