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Re: Trick to keep foil kite from stalling

Posted: Wed May 03, 2017 2:53 pm
by Matteo V
Love the acedemics. That is usually my realm. But the foil heads on this forum are out of my league. They are right, but just out of my league.

Keep it simple. The one thing you should get from the video above is that this guy is not sheeting all the way in. Even when he needs the most power. Sweet spot, sweet spot, sweet spot. Or rather, feel the power increase as you sheet out! Counter intuitive, but the reality none the less in light winds. Oh, and do sheet in a bit once the kite starts moving - just a bit.

Don't fill your head with the academics too much, fill your head with the experience to build instinct so you do not have to think about power, stall, and AOA. Save conscious thought for safety considerations.

The best way to do this for snow, is to get out on a grass field and fly in 0-4knt. Some days you will fail, but some you will gain more experience than your best day on the snow. Go out in 2-6knt in the water somewhere you can touch, but also float by pulling your legs up. You will have lots of kite drying sessions, but you will figure out the sweet spot with enough times out. Once is not enough in no go conditions (too light).

Re: Trick to keep foil kite from stalling

Posted: Wed May 03, 2017 3:14 pm
by joriws
Matteo V wrote:
Wed May 03, 2017 2:53 pm
Love the acedemics. That is usually my realm. But the foil heads on this forum are out of my league. They are right, but just out of my league.

Keep it simple. The one thing you should get from the video above is that this guy is not sheeting all the way in. Even when he needs the most power. Sweet spot, sweet spot, sweet spot. Or rather, feel the power increase as you sheet out! Counter intuitive, but the reality none the less in light winds. Oh, and do sheet in a bit once the kite starts moving - just a bit.

Don't fill your head with the academics too much, fill your head with the experience to build instinct so you do not have to think about power, stall, and AOA. Save conscious thought for safety considerations.
Thank you for you compliments. I am the guy at the posted video.

Here is a video of my first try with Sonic-FR for reference (also in light wind but not as low as Speed4 video) but similar things, first time using the kite and seeking sweet spot while doing simple maneuvers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqmfux98MHI

I though to write the theory that reader would understand "why"-part. "You suffocate the kite and you drop". Why did it happen?. I wanted to give "proof" and food for thoughs why it is like that and why you should optimize your bar position. And you interpreted the video correctly, on my day's trim the sweet spot was about 2/3 pulled in. And want more power try sheeting out.

Another non-mentioned ulw trick is fly in smooth arcs because too hard turns loose too much power from inside turn of the kite. Some people even turn the kite by leader lines to keep inside turn wing's backline in tension by keeping bar at non-turning position. But that does not act on OP's backstall question so it got left out.

Re: Trick to keep foil kite from stalling

Posted: Wed May 03, 2017 4:23 pm
by socommk23
Kamikuza wrote:
Wed May 03, 2017 1:46 pm
joriws wrote:
Wed May 03, 2017 1:29 pm
So actually Kamikuza/Socommk23 tip of using trim strap to trim backstall out is in other terms taking bar travel away that you cannot enter >18 degrees AoA.
That's only the case in kites where the bar solely controls AoA though . . .
Agreed on both terms. Take the possibility of backstalling away by sheeting in reducing the chance of reaching the aoa that will stall it.
You can always sheet out after you get moving.
Plus as kami points out, some kites change camber and projected area with a pull of the bar.
Btw, i fly and race with my foil kites fully sheeted in and use the bar to find the sweet spot. Maybe its not making the best of it but it works for me quite well.

Re: Trick to keep foil kite from stalling

Posted: Wed May 03, 2017 7:27 pm
by Matteo V
joriws wrote:
Wed May 03, 2017 3:14 pm


Thank you for you compliments. I am the guy at the posted video.

Another non-mentioned ulw trick is fly in smooth arcs because too hard turns loose too much power from inside turn of the kite. Some people even turn the kite by leader lines to keep inside turn wing's backline in tension by keeping bar at non-turning position. But that does not act on OP's backstall question so it got left out.
Still amazed at the foil knowledge here. I get so much from the academics side of discussions here. This is another piece of info that clarifies something I have mastered (I think), but have never been able to put it in to words.

That said, on the snow, I do hard turns with the kite since I do not sink. On the water, bad idea.

Re: Trick to keep foil kite from stalling

Posted: Wed May 03, 2017 8:20 pm
by Kitemanmuc
You guys are awesome! Thanks for the help!

Re: Trick to keep foil kite from stalling

Posted: Thu May 04, 2017 7:52 am
by plummet
Let the bar out!

Re: Trick to keep foil kite from stalling

Posted: Thu May 04, 2017 1:39 pm
by TheRussian
lol... I find PMU's post v informative and decided to get a lovely Chrono to see what all the fuss was about !

Re: Trick to keep foil kite from stalling

Posted: Thu May 04, 2017 2:19 pm
by Matteo V
Chrono2, I hope. The Chrono and Chrono2 are not the same kite by a long shot. They should have changed the name to avoid confusion. I prefer the Chrono2 above any foil kite I have tried, though I have not tried the Flysurfer Sonic2.

Re: Trick to keep foil kite from stalling

Posted: Thu May 04, 2017 4:50 pm
by TheRussian
Matteo V wrote:
Thu May 04, 2017 2:19 pm
Chrono2, I hope. The Chrono and Chrono2 are not the same kite by a long shot. They should have changed the name to avoid confusion. I prefer the Chrono2 above any foil kite I have tried, though I have not tried the Flysurfer Sonic2.
Yes :thumb: It's a beauty - 15m & can blast around all day long in 6 Knots on my hydrofoil!

Re: Trick to keep foil kite from stalling

Posted: Thu May 04, 2017 5:02 pm
by windrider1
if ure coming from a lei its a little different skill to a fly. . 1st thing i tell folks is to ease up on the bar grip. let the kite breathe and accelerate through the wind to generate usuable power. here is an inportant fact about foil kites -because of its bridle connection points they can go from completely depowered to fully powered to stall.. where as most lei its very hard to stall them. this can happen depending on how u trim your kite.
i never ride my foils with the trim strap on full. u adjust a foil based on the concept that when u pull in the bar the kite does not back dwn out of the sky while riding with bar pulled in. and this concept is true no matter the wind speed but usually requiring a little more depowering in very light winds. its as simple as that. generallly on the upstroke of a foil kite u also need to u easy the bar out so the kite accelerates through the window and generates max power.