Thank you. Very happy if it helps.Sandras wrote: ↑Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:28 pmA picture is a thousand words!
Regis many many thanks for your drawings and explanations.
One of the most useful posts in this site!
I understand that playing with the Z line has 2 advantages for someone that does not want to mess around a lot. 1) adjusts both B&C proportionally at once. 2) looks easier accessible than spl-C
An aging kite is more likely to need extending or shortening of Z?
How could changes to very different part of chord (rib, airfoil) have similar effect? If pulley line has shrinked and pulls B-C area to low camber adjusting Z tighter doesn't affect it at all. It is a hack fix at best.foilholio wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:02 amAdjusting Z is the same from a camber point as C and B in their correct ratios, which B does automatically on flysurfer mixers when you adjust C. Flysurfers standard advice is to adjust B and C in their correct ratios, why they don't just add a Z adjustment and make it simpler?
That is correct. Due to different loads and line lengths bridle lines don't shrink equally.
No, it is not about line being to short for bar movement. Pulley lines are usually 100cm upwards (1:2 line has most movement and should be the longest one), so unless bar sheeting range is unusually long it is enough. Kite would backstall before pulleyline lenght is used. it should be remembered "neutral" position in mixer is with equal line lenghts (which is when bar is against the chickenloop).
That is true. Lowered camber makes kite slow and backstally.
I don't know, I've been working, designing, building (incl. mixers, many different kinds of them) and using depowerable foil kites for over 15 years now (I still occasionally do) and never I've had any special problems with speed systems or bridles, I mean nothing that would make me think there is something I don't understand. But I must say when I'm reading your posts foilholio I quite often find it hard to follow what do you mean.foilholio wrote: Honestly kitexpert you contradict your name at every turn. I often don't reply to you because well what they say about arguing with an idiot and all.
How can adjusting Z work when it's B and C that have shrunk? Well if you had read everything I had written that is not what I said. You would need to adjust BC and Z to get everything back to normal. Adjusting Z alone though can return the camber to normal though ( yes I know you believe you can't change camber with bridle tension "calm down" ). Adjusting BC has with it the same problems of Z both won't correct the AB depower limit alone. If a kite was designed to have sufficient slack from the start on B that "any" amount of shrink wouldn't see it go tight, then adjusting BC or Z alone could be used. But I have never seen such a kite even though it would seem modern kites that can fly solely on A could be designed like that.
Replacing pulley lines well before wear would require seems well stupid. Factor in NEW pulley lines can be shrunk close to 10% and shrink is a continual problem, that after 1hour of use "technically" an adjustment could be used then why not have an adjustment?, either on the pulley line or on BC and or Z.
As to the range of mixers... here your lack of understanding shines through. Well you will find the 1meter C pulley line on most flysurfers gives roughly 1m up and 1m down. From the 1m up down to about level is the normal flying range, the 1m down is more advanced flying, landing and relaunch or reverse flying. What you seem to stumble past is a mixer needs to do a few more things than are simply labelled as "AoA changes", the same as a kite needs to do a few more things than are simply labelled as "lift". You will find a bar is quite capable of having a trim range of 1m or even a bit more, and with the manual use of hands on lines like in relaunch another meter is close near achieved. As to whether 2ms of range is needed on foils kites? Well on the larger 21+ sizes that is perhaps a bit short, but on a smaller 6m then 1/2 to 2/3 of that would be enough. I think manufacture, design and support dictates a standard mixer size.
Porosity can induce instability, can be countered a bit with mixer. But also there is performance loss I guess from increased drag so overall there is no real win there. A punctured tire you can drive slow but best to patch it up.
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