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Flysurfer Soul

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blu
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Re: Flysurfer Soul

Postby blu » Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:58 pm

Nem0 wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:50 am
blu wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 1:21 am
blu wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 9:27 pm
ronstan.jpg

any one replaced pulleys with bigger more solid( Ronstan with bearings) in your Soul kite?
can you share your experience and opinion on those?
I'm replacing them on the Soul bridle only. I have seen the bridle line brake due to bad pully and kite landed on the tree.
Anybody experienced pully failure on the Soul?
Not at all!
I love my new 9m Soul but I will be watching those pulley blocks very closely :o

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Re: Flysurfer Soul

Postby JakeFarley » Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:04 am

No problems with pulleys on my Soul, Speed 5 or any other kites. After each session I wash/spray each pulley with fresh water and make sure it runs freely. Also I check for wear on the mixer and bridle lines.

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Re: Flysurfer Soul

Postby cwood » Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:06 am

JakeFarley wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:04 am
No problems with pulleys on my Soul, Speed 5 or any other kites. After each session I wash/spray each pulley with fresh water and make sure it runs freely. Also I check for wear on the mixer and bridle lines.
Exactly!

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Re: Flysurfer Soul

Postby foilholio » Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:16 am

Flysurfer pulleys, sprenger kite blocks, are really good even Pansh uses them too. Those ball bearing blocks get jammed with sand and they are like twice as heavy so they cause tangles.
spengerkiteblock.jpg
spengerkiteblock.jpg (15.38 KiB) Viewed 1288 times
You can still sort of fly foil kites with broken pulley or pulley line, well mainly down wind but a little to the side. Remember A and Z have direct connections. It can be hard to avoid collapses with a kite like that and once it collapses it can be pack up and swim.

Ronstan also have a kite block like sprenger, they actually had it first. It is good too, a little lighter as well. The sprenger I think is a tighter fitting block, so harder for sand to get in, but can jam maybe easier. Hard to remember, I do like to always rinse my pulleys.
ronstankiteblock.jpg
ronstankiteblock.jpg (28.29 KiB) Viewed 1288 times
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blu
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Re: Flysurfer Soul

Postby blu » Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:25 pm

foilholio wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:16 am
Flysurfer pulleys, sprenger kite blocks, are really good even Pansh uses them too. Those ball bearing blocks get jammed with sand and they are like twice as heavy so they cause tangles.

spengerkiteblock.jpg

You can still sort of fly foil kites with broken pulley or pulley line, well mainly down wind but a little to the side. Remember A and Z have direct connections. It can be hard to avoid collapses with a kite like that and once it collapses it can be pack up and swim.

Ronstan also have a kite block like sprenger, they actually had it first. It is good too, a little lighter as well. The sprenger I think is a tighter fitting block, so harder for sand to get in, but can jam maybe easier. Hard to remember, I do like to always rinse my pulleys.

ronstankiteblock.jpg
great info
thanks

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Re: Flysurfer Soul

Postby joriws » Sat Dec 21, 2019 10:25 am

This is interesting. Tuning Soul for waves with PMA. Taken from FS fb page. :thumb:
Screenshot_20191221-112111_Chrome.jpg

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Re: Flysurfer Soul

Postby foilholio » Sun Dec 22, 2019 2:02 am

joriws wrote: This is interesting. Tuning Soul for waves with PMA. Taken from FS fb page. :thumb:
Screenshot_20191221-112111_Chrome.jpg
I may be confused on the settings but they seem to suggest more camber. I have generally found foils to drift better with less camber. Exception would maybe be the Pyscho4 where if the tips collapse more it drifts better. Increasing the depower is good I think but there is no need to change the profile to achieve it. I recently changed the AB depower limit on one of my kites from 25cm to 27cm, it gave quite a dramatic effect on depower especially inside the window. I am considering with my new mixer design to increase the range a little, especially so I can experiment with more depower. On larger kites mainly the 100cm C SPL is a little short if you move too much toward depower and you then lose relaunch.

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Re: Flysurfer Soul

Postby kitexpert » Tue Dec 24, 2019 1:29 am

foilholio wrote:
I may be confused on the settings but they seem to suggest more camber. I have generally found foils to drift better with less camber. Exception would maybe be the Pyscho4 where if the tips collapse more it drifts better. Increasing the depower is good I think but there is no need to change the profile to achieve it. I recently changed the AB depower limit on one of my kites from 25cm to 27cm, it gave quite a dramatic effect on depower especially inside the window. I am considering with my new mixer design to increase the range a little, especially so I can experiment with more depower. On larger kites mainly the 100cm C SPL is a little short if you move too much toward depower and you then lose relaunch.
Adding camber doesn't make kite drift better, it makes it worse. But I'm not interested enough to find out what previous Soul tuning meant, except increasing B-C lengths increases camber.

Can you foilholio explain what do you mean "AB depower limit" ? If I don't get it hardly no one else in this forum does :) Or is it when pulley line end hits the pulley (in some theoretical situation)?

I don't think 100cm SPL is too short. Kite just don't depower more than it can, no matter how long sheeting range you have in your bar. Bar movement or trimmer pull in just becomes non effective movement after some point. For small kite sizes SPL may be "too long" but I guess FS has them same for all kites because of simplicity.

If you have bar sheeted out and have depowered trimmer back lines are very slack in foil kites. Then it is not possible to have more depower, no matter what kind of experiments are done in the bridle/mixer.

C line row moves half of the brake movement, so C pulley line doesn't travel for very long through the pulley. I don't see a problem there, and taking a look for used pulley lines it is easy to see what travel is in practice. In the early days I used to turn pulley lines to continue their life span. IIRC it was mostly B pulley lines which work on quite short travel, possibly also C pulley lines.

The question of how long pulley lines should be and how they work in a kite is a bit difficult in theory (it depends on quite many things) but quite simple in practice. As long as pulley lines (mixer itself) are long enough there isn't any problems. If mixer is "too long" it just wastes line and adds slightly drag/weight and tangle risk perhaps. Limiting some pulley line movement by using too short lines or preferably some kind of stoppers may give additional tuning possibilities but at first there should be an idea for the modification. I don't see it. Letting kite change AoA freely with the bar movement works very well and is reasonable.

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Re: Flysurfer Soul

Postby jakemoore » Thu Dec 26, 2019 2:27 am

The PMA effect here has more effect on the kite tips shape depowered or even when tension lost completely. I take it he is shortening the bottom skin so more wingtip folding like Psycho4. The tips collapse more but the kite sits deep while depowered. Turning speed especially while depowered is improved.

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Re: Flysurfer Soul

Postby foilholio » Sat Dec 28, 2019 4:53 pm

Interesting the Soul can have a similar effect to the Psycho4. I am actually considering increasing that on the Pyscho4 for the same reasons.
kitexpert wrote: Adding camber doesn't make kite drift better, it makes it worse.
Yes except in the case like with the pyscho4 on the tips.
kitexpert wrote: Can you foilholio explain what do you mean "AB depower limit" ?
Limit of travel for B depowered at the mixer as measured past A. I could call it the mixer depower limit, or B limit, or B depower limit. I think it is important to mention B. You measure from A to B, so I just call it the AB depower limit.
kitexpert wrote:I don't think 100cm SPL is too short
Well for 21m kites it could be considered a little too short especially when it shrinks to 90cm. The real factor is the cord length on the kite, so large kites with lower AR need more pulley line length.
kitexpert wrote: If you have bar sheeted out and have depowered trimmer back lines are very slack in foil kites. Then it is not possible to have more depower, no matter what kind of experiments are done in the bridle/mixer.
I don't think you have understood what I have said. I am increasing the depower at the mixer, that is most definitely possible. Yes for certain once lines are slack you have most of the depower. I mean there is I think some part in amount of slack giving slightly more travel. There is more slack to be gained in the mixer and then when the kite is deep in the window the lines can be tighter than they are at the edge.

kitexpert wrote: I don't see a problem there, and taking a look for used pulley lines it is easy to see what travel is in practice.
Yes the wear on the pulley line is much less than the length of it. This does not necessarily mean that the pulley is restricted to that worn section just that most of it's time is there. The pulley may or may not hit the physical limit, it can and I have observed it but it might not. It does however hit some sort of limit, the fact you can measure the actually physical limit at the mixer and use that does not make it less applicable if the kite hits that limit or not.
kitexpert wrote: The question of how long pulley lines should be and how they work in a kite is a bit difficult in theory
I don't really see it as difficult. If you designed kites long enough you would have some angles to achieve and could calculate the lengths needed to do so. The basic theory is to achieve desired depower and relaunch.
kitexpert wrote: possibilities but at first there should be an idea for the modification. I don't see it. Letting kite change AoA freely with the bar movement works very well and is reasonable.
My ideas for a new mixer are for minimizing lengths and improving adjustments. I have no radical ideas to use new ratios etc. It is just basic stuff like should I adjust the length of B main or B pulley line and how. If I have no adjustment on B main then I can trim the whole mixer down in length. Say remove 30cm from the B main so too can I remove 30cm from A C and Z mains. Maybe then the angles become wrong from the mixer to the kite, but alternately I can use lighter main lines and keep the same lengths.


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