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Flysurfer Soul

For all foil kite riders
nothing2seehere
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Re: Flysurfer Soul

Postby nothing2seehere » Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:16 am

It hasn't taken me that long to get proficient with setting up my Soul so its not noticeably slower (to me, not necessarily a stop watch). The drift of my soul is better than my Airush ultra though and I can ride closer downwind with the soul.

I suspect the Core XLite might be the kite for Solarset though as he already has a Core bar so the extra retail cost of the kite is offset by not needing another bar. I imagine the bar with his soul is a large bar (60cm?) with short lines (airush are normally 24m vs 20m on the flysurfer bar) so it would be super responsive and taking it on and off is likely to lead to tangles in the long run for the soul.

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Re: Flysurfer Soul

Postby SolarSet » Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:30 am

How Soul can drift better than Ultra if Soul its further on windows edge? My understanding is that doubleskin foil kite drift worst than LEI due to their position on WW?
I'm going for Ultra 10m as I have 20-40% discount on them depending on year but as it was already suggested first I need to get hold of Moses Onda.

It there a much value in auto-untwist in kite for foiling? I have it on mine core bar and on TT its very handy but I'm not sure how important it is while foiling? It looks as while foiling you don't need lines untwisted so quick.
Had airush bar in my hands once it was 2020 and it seems very heavy.

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Gestalt
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Re: Flysurfer Soul

Postby Gestalt » Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:42 am

SolarSet wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:21 pm
Hey I'm looking for some advice on getting my next foiling kite. Currently I have XR6 8/11m which kinda sucks for foiling and Soul 15m which is way better.
Could someone put bullet points for pro/cons of getting Souls vs Airush Ultra or single strut Contra? I'm considering Soul 9 or 10m to be added or Airush ultra in size 9m?
Currently I have Zeeko Blaster which is 750cm^2 front wing and I'm starting to learn gybes, next year probably would go with Onda
I'm familiar with flying close cell kite mainly on TT and I ridden it only 5 times on foil but I understand its headaches, never ridden single or strutless kite,
I was keen on Soul but on my home spot most people ride Onda or other foils with DT Evo/Neo and it makes me think if everyone else rides LEI hydrofoiling instead of closecell foil kite maybe it's not worth the hassle to get Soul in smaller size?
My recommendation here would be based on what style of hydrofoiling you prefer. If you preferred strapless "surf style" and playfully carving I would recommend the LEI Ocean Rodeo Aluula Roam 8m or 10m. It's a 3-strut as light as a no strut kite, with way easier relaunch and power generation abilities. The kite generates it's power purely through technique, has phenomenal drift and has almost zero grunt. So you can really switch the power off in an instant and glide around on your foil. Much of the time it doesn't even feel like you are really attached to a kite.

If you prefer strapped hydrofoiling like more highspeed race style where you are edging then a kite with more grunt like a soul would be recommended. Here it's far easier to generate more power and comfortably sit and cruise around in it. Here you directly feel the power of the kite all the time and need to counterbalance against the pull. The advantage is you get extra lift, the disadvantage is you have to balance this against getting pulled off your edge. IMO this makes more sense with a smaller hydrofoil wing something much less than 1000cm2. To me a Soul is similar to an XR in this respect so I am guessing this is not what you want.

One disadvantage I have seen with foil kites is transitions and gybes can sometimes be rough, especially if you want to do them quickly. The foil kite has a hard time racing across the wind window to pull you through the turn. With an LEI you don't have this issue. Another disadvantage to foil kites is you can get overpowered on them quickly if the wind picks up. Then you need to park the kite higher in the wind window and it's constantly pulling you and your harness up to twelve o'clock which is more uncomfortable IMO. With a purpose built LEI drift kite you can dump way more power, ride with the kite at a more natural lower angle and ride through a larger wind range.
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rnelias
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Re: Flysurfer Soul

Postby rnelias » Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:27 pm

nothing2seehere wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:16 am
I suspect the Core XLite might be the kite for Solarset though as he already has a Core bar so the extra retail cost of the kite is offset by not needing another bar. I imagine the bar with his soul is a large bar (60cm?) with short lines (airush are normally 24m vs 20m on the flysurfer bar) so it would be super responsive and taking it on and off is likely to lead to tangles in the long run for the soul.
but why would he need an Airush bar for the Ultra? Any bar would work. Although I have the Ozone bar, sometimes I fly the Alpha with a clickbar. Ozone and Duotone use the same connection knots/loops combination but I also have a Bandit that bought without the bar. When I use the Bandit, is just a matter of rotating the front line pigtails and slide the Y closer to the bar. In 10 seconds the bar is ready.
SolarSet wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:30 am
How Soul can drift better than Ultra if Soul its further on windows edge? My understanding is that doubleskin foil kite drift worst than LEI due to their position on WW?
I'm going for Ultra 10m as I have 20-40% discount on them depending on year but as it was already suggested first I need to get hold of Moses Onda.

It there a much value in auto-untwist in kite for foiling? I have it on mine core bar and on TT its very handy but I'm not sure how important it is while foiling? It looks as while foiling you don't need lines untwisted so quick.
Had airush bar in my hands once it was 2020 and it seems very heavy.
It drifts because it's so light that the wind has no issue to carry the kite when you release the bar. Moreover, if you put it deep in the wind window, the drag created is counter balanced since the kite is soft and can arc/fold easily. In these situations, my Alpha 8m was better than the Soul, at least when comparing to the 12m.

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Re: Flysurfer Soul

Postby nothing2seehere » Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:45 pm

SolarSet wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:30 am
How Soul can drift better than Ultra if Soul its further on windows edge? My understanding is that doubleskin foil kite drift worst than LEI due to their position on WW?
I'm going for Ultra 10m as I have 20-40% discount on them depending on year but as it was already suggested first I need to get hold of Moses Onda.

It there a much value in auto-untwist in kite for foiling? I have it on mine core bar and on TT its very handy but I'm not sure how important it is while foiling? It looks as while foiling you don't need lines untwisted so quick.
Had airush bar in my hands once it was 2020 and it seems very heavy.
Don't get me wrong, the ultra is a great kite. I suspected a good deal from a local shop would be the motivation. I reckon you would be very happy with it. Its just that as this is a Flysurfer soul thread, I thought I would point out alternative options that might work for you just as well.

The soul is lighter so you can backstall it to help it drift. It also recovers more cleanly than my ultra. This might be because I fly my ultra on 28m lines - but essentially I mean the soul recovers from slack line tension a lot more easily. I'm kind of splitting hairs here because they are both very good compared to something like the XR6.
rnelias wrote:
but why would he need an Airush bar for the Ultra? Any bar would work. Although I have the Ozone bar, sometimes I fly the Alpha with a clickbar. Ozone and Duotone use the same connection knots/loops combination but I also have a Bandit that bought without the bar. When I use the Bandit, is just a matter of rotating the front line pigtails and slide the Y closer to the bar. In 10 seconds the bar is ready.
Not necessarily an Airush bar but one with a low V split.

The Core bars are high Y split and have a funny quick release that isn't single front line but isn't dual front line either. It MIGHT work but I'm not going to suggest someone else try it in case they get injured. The flysurfer bar will have short lines (compared to Airush's standard line length) though I hadn't realised the M bar was adjustable width and could be used with the 15m soul so it might be fine with line extensions?

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Re: Flysurfer Soul

Postby SolarSet » Thu Jul 22, 2021 2:09 pm

nothing2seehere wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:45 pm

Not necessarily an Airush bar but one with a low V split.

The Core bars are high Y split and have a funny quick release that isn't single front line but isn't dual front line either. It MIGHT work but I'm not going to suggest someone else try it in case they get injured. The flysurfer bar will have short lines (compared to Airush's standard line length) though I hadn't realised the M bar was adjustable width and could be used with the 15m soul so it might be fine with line extensions?
I might start with my Core Sensor 3+ on Ulta, is there any good reason why front line split could affect kite much?
I have also bar from Flysurfer but prefer to keep it connected permanently with Soul.
Gestalt wrote: My recommendation here would be based on what style of hydrofoiling you prefer. If you preferred strapless "surf style" and playfully carving I would recommend the LEI Ocean Rodeo Aluula Roam 8m or 10m. It's a 3-strut as light as a no strut kite, with way easier relaunch and power generation abilities. The kite generates it's power purely through technique, has phenomenal drift and has almost zero grunt. So you can really switch the power off in an instant and glide around on your foil. Much of the time it doesn't even feel like you are really attached to a kite.
Based on these comments I will go with Ultra instead of Soul, Aluula roam would be 3x more expensive than ultra in same size, I can understand that Soul is twice the price of ultra but to pay to LEI more than foil kite I'm not ready for it yet.

From what I see I'm not going to gain a lot more between ultra and roam aluula and some people claim that neo sls is better than roam aluula.

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Re: Flysurfer Soul

Postby rnelias » Thu Jul 22, 2021 2:35 pm

@Gestalt's comment is spot on :thumb:

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Re: Flysurfer Soul

Postby nothing2seehere » Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:14 pm

SolarSet wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 2:09 pm
nothing2seehere wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:45 pm

Not necessarily an Airush bar but one with a low V split.

The Core bars are high Y split and have a funny quick release that isn't single front line but isn't dual front line either. It MIGHT work but I'm not going to suggest someone else try it in case they get injured. The flysurfer bar will have short lines (compared to Airush's standard line length) though I hadn't realised the M bar was adjustable width and could be used with the 15m soul so it might be fine with line extensions?
I might start with my Core Sensor 3+ on Ulta, is there any good reason why front line split could affect kite much?
I have also bar from Flysurfer but prefer to keep it connected permanently with Soul.
High Y pinches the leading edge together a little and effectively shortens the front lines. You won't know if it works or not until you try it and I'd try first on a twin tip to see if it flies properly. Have had kites that work and ones that don't. On the ones that don't the steering and power delivery just didn't work (difficult to get started and then the kite wouldn't respond to steering input once you were powered). If I had to guess, I'd say you should be fine as the Ultra has a 6 pulley bridle system which should compensate.

You would probably be alright with the safety release for hydrofoiling on the Core sensor as you won't be going out very powered up so chances of a death loop are slim. It will make light wind relaunch tricky as you won't be able to use the front lines to help with light wind relaunch. If there is enough wind, just pulling on a single steering line will be fine but you won't get the same marginal wind relaunch with that bar. Basically, try not to crash the kite in light wind :D
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Nem0
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Re: Flysurfer Soul

Postby Nem0 » Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:19 pm

rnelias wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:35 pm
An Alpha 10m weigths just 2.3kg while a Soul 12m is 2,32kg. Both will have similar low end and will start to fly at 6-7 knots. Soul will have more wind range, better to go upwind (speed) and is more floaty but is more expensive, worse to keep (dry, check bridles, self landing, etc...) and does not float. An 1-struct is cheaper, easier to keep (basically, do nothing), floats and, in my opinion, is more playfull to fly.
Why do you compare 10m LEI with 12m foil?
12m Soul has tons of more power!
You need to compare it with 8m or 6m Soul.
They will have similar power than 10m LEI.
With this corrected comparison you can see the advantages of the small Souls!

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Re: Flysurfer Soul

Postby sonny2727 » Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:15 pm

with surf hydrofoil wing either small Soul or 1 strut/Peak ...I prefer Duotone Mono with 633 as its really a playful combination, and 637 with Soul or TT. Soul will definitely have more wind range on a race hydrofoil or TT but on 633 you could get overpowered and need to stand on the front wing...But if you are practising Boosting, Soul is the most forgiving foil kite...
Go with a single strut and decide with direction you want to go in foiling - Wave or race and then add the next kite ..Peak or Sonic :)


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