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Flysurfer Soul

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cwood
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Re: Flysurfer Soul

Postby cwood » Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:55 pm

Adventure Logs wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:28 pm
airsail wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:40 pm
Been out on my 12 mtr Soul about 6 times. On 2 occasions I have had the rear lines hook on the small stainless rings now used to attach the flying lines to the bridle. It doesn’t effect the flying characteristics and eventually clears if the kite is dropped.
Having used older flysurfers using easy line connectors I have not experienced this before.
Anyone else seen this problem or is it just me?
Yep I've had it happen a couple times with the CC bar on my Souls, it is a new problem since that never happened with the metal block before. No big deal, a couple quick yanks undoes it for me, same as if I was riding with a gopro on a line mount. Perhaps they can make a more oval loop to prevent something like this in the future. New bar is coming soon, can't wait to see what it is. The problem has always been with Flysurfer bars and this next gen is suppose to correct all of that. Bar floaters that don't tear and get damaged easily is high on my list. Oh and bungee lines that actually work and center lines that wear less.

=Jason-
Now you're just being demanding :-) My fav innovation on last round was when they went to a gap-less chicken loop release mechanism that doesn't get bumped by board edges.

airsail
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Re: Flysurfer Soul

Postby airsail » Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:58 pm

Thanks, so not just me. I guess they moved away from ELC’s when they stopped selling bars with kite, personally I still have a bar for every kite and never disconnect them.
I guess by looping through the ring, rather than the larks head around the line above it, the problem would be solved, but I wonder how strong the rings are?
Will give the yank method a go.

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Re: Flysurfer Soul

Postby collider » Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:05 am

Would swapping in a smaller ring, or just adding a figure 8 knot to the end help with the catching problem?

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Armin Harich
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Re: Flysurfer Soul

Postby Armin Harich » Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:17 pm

Hello.

Let me give you some detailed backgroundinfo, why we do, what we do:

A good topend of the flyinglines should do the following things, especialy at foil kites.

- Limited risk of catching bridles/mixer or any other lines. Otherwise launching can be dangerous, relaunching impossible or the kite could end in a death loop.
We avoid the death loop, as the Front and Back-main is 1m long. If a mixerline tangles, the kite is killed by this 1 meter length.

- No Slipping off flyinglines.
That could kill you, if you jump of fly higher than you want to fall. So Rings/knot need to be big enough.

- As easy as possible mounting and dismounting.
A lot of customers still want to be able to buy the kite only and want to mount the bar easy.
It is also nice, if you use one bar for 2 Kites.
That is the reason, why we removed the ELC. Too many customers didn't understood how to use them.

The possibility of the tangeling of the flyinglines around the rings is possible, but no risk. If you dislike it, take a piler and cut the rings off. Loop the lines simply into each other. Knots will not fix the problem of tangeling, but reduce the breaking strength.
The ELC are still in our shop available, if you prefer them: http://shop.flysurfer.com/easy-line-connector.html

cwood
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Re: Flysurfer Soul

Postby cwood » Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:23 pm

Armin Harich wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:17 pm
Hello.

Let me give you some detailed backgroundinfo, why we do, what we do:

A good topend of the flyinglines should do the following things, especialy at foil kites.

- Limited risk of catching bridles/mixer or any other lines. Otherwise launching can be dangerous, relaunching impossible or the kite could end in a death loop.
We avoid the death loop, as the Front and Back-main is 1m long. If a mixerline tangles, the kite is killed by this 1 meter length.

- No Slipping off flyinglines.
That could kill you, if you jump of fly higher than you want to fall. So Rings/knot need to be big enough.

- As easy as possible mounting and dismounting.
A lot of customers still want to be able to buy the kite only and want to mount the bar easy.
It is also nice, if you use one bar for 2 Kites.
That is the reason, why we removed the ELC. Too many customers didn't understood how to use them.

The possibility of the tangeling of the flyinglines around the rings is possible, but no risk. If you dislike it, take a piler and cut the rings off. Loop the lines simply into each other. Knots will not fix the problem of tangeling, but reduce the breaking strength.
The ELC are still in our shop available, if you prefer them: http://shop.flysurfer.com/easy-line-connector.html
Thanks for the info. I do like the rings and was surprised to see my Sonic Race had what seemed to be very small knots only.....I was afraid of them slipping off the first time I used them. I missed the solid feeling of the rings.

airsail
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Re: Flysurfer Soul

Postby airsail » Fri Oct 26, 2018 8:14 pm

Thanks Armin for your detailed reply.
I think I may have found the problem. The rings are welded, so one part of the ring is not so smooth. On my kite one of the rings had this welded area under the loop/larks head. It was stuck out pointing up, rather than down like the other 3. It was also difficult to move as the knot was tight. I rotated the ring so the welded area was away from the knot and folded the ring down.
I tested the kite yesterday and no hook ups, simple fix.

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Armin Harich
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Re: Flysurfer Soul

Postby Armin Harich » Sat Oct 27, 2018 7:47 am

Good to hear, what you could fixed the problem.

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downunder
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Re: Flysurfer Soul

Postby downunder » Sat Oct 27, 2018 3:15 pm

drsurf wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:48 pm
Been using the 6m Soul mainly on a foilboard but also twintip. I'm 65kg and live in a windy area but have been using the kite in winds from under 10 knots to about 20 knots.
• Bar pressure neither high or low, gives good feel for the kite
• Speed in a straight line builds gradually and on a foilboard is currently faster than my skill and choppy conditions allow
• Good turning speed considering it's high aspect, high projected area, compared to LEI kites. Power is in a different part of the turn but by varying sheeting you can make it work how you like it.
• Upwind on foil or TT is excellent. Even in light wind you can sine the kite for power and still make ground on a TT
• It feels like a kite anyone could use, it's easy to fly and control. However the better you are the more you'll get from the kite
• it doesn't seem to take on water. Unless you've absolutely no wind the kite relaunches from the water better than any other kite I've used. Pull one line or do a reverse launch. I've swam in bags of water with past foils but with the Soul it's hard to imagine. (Oh if you think the profile means you'll take in a lot of water you'd have to be an amateur. Anyone with any foil sense would roll the kite up before it filled assuming there was no wind to launch. And the Soul fabric seems to repel the water)
• All foil kites like a helper for landing. However I've landed the Soul on the back lines myself easily with no problems or tangles
• Downwind on a foilboard is where the Soul really shines. Fantastic drift makes it easy to control and keep in the sky where you want it. Heavier LEI kites cannot compare
• You have to fly the Soul when new for about 5 hours for it to stretch the lines into perfect position then it really feels sweet
• Biiigg wind range

You also need to fly the Soul for a couple of hours to really get a feel for the kite. A couple of runs on a TT won't give you time to get the most out of the kite. It really needs to be used with a foilboard to see how good this kite is. I've yet to have a day with light enough wind to say I can't get flying on my foilboard, and this is a small 6m foil! Granted I'm light and I do have a Moses 633 as one of my foils :D

Now I must disclose that I sell Flysurfer kites as well as other brands. Over the past 20 years I have used foil kites and Arcs previously and found too many downsides, and therefore have a range of LEI kites which work well for me. But the more I fly the Soul the better it feels.

Downsides: It's expensive. In Australia good foil kites like Souls and Hyperlinks aren't cheap. However the Soul seems built to last. No zips anywhere to corrode when packed away, all bridle lines available as spare parts along with other hardware. Bridles have easy adjustment checking and there is also additional tuning capability built inside the kite. I think that Flysurfer recommends speedsystem bridle replacement at 250 hours which is a lot of kiting and seems to reflect a materials strategy that is designed for longevity. So considering this and the wind range you may needs less kites and update them less often. This may equalise the price differential.
If you're in Australia and in NSW and want to try these kites feel free to contact me.

Have fun, Dave
Umm,

You do realize that u are comparing apples against oranges? Moses 633? Have no idea what that is.


As I said, and the user reported after me, 12m is quite slow with steering.
6m pivots well? Sure, it is 6m.

Plus, there are reports an6m will overfly the wind window. Just saying, search this forum. Overflying is quite dangerous on a foil...

Remember, there are a lot of “real” amateurs, as u called me, who will buy this kite as a first foil. And Im not one of them.

It is a good kite tho. Cant fault it. But saying that it will replace the whole quiver says more about the rider than the reality. For me, it is horses for courses.

I mean, u selling it, so...Its strange how many sellers are reporting all glory, its little too much me thinks.

D.

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Nem0
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Re: Flysurfer Soul

Postby Nem0 » Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:49 pm

Flag53 wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 8:48 am
Has anyone tried adjusting the profile adjusters yet ?
I shortened each PMA one knot!
Don't touch the last one in the tips.
Otherwise they start to clapping.

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Re: Flysurfer Soul

Postby drsurf » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:55 pm

downunder wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 3:15 pm
drsurf wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:48 pm
Been using the 6m Soul mainly on a foilboard but also twintip. I'm 65kg and live in a windy area but have been using the kite in winds from under 10 knots to about 20 knots.
• Bar pressure neither high or low, gives good feel for the kite
• Speed in a straight line builds gradually and on a foilboard is currently faster than my skill and choppy conditions allow
• Good turning speed considering it's high aspect, high projected area, compared to LEI kites. Power is in a different part of the turn but by varying sheeting you can make it work how you like it.
• Upwind on foil or TT is excellent. Even in light wind you can sine the kite for power and still make ground on a TT
• It feels like a kite anyone could use, it's easy to fly and control. However the better you are the more you'll get from the kite
• it doesn't seem to take on water. Unless you've absolutely no wind the kite relaunches from the water better than any other kite I've used. Pull one line or do a reverse launch. I've swam in bags of water with past foils but with the Soul it's hard to imagine. (Oh if you think the profile means you'll take in a lot of water you'd have to be an amateur. Anyone with any foil sense would roll the kite up before it filled assuming there was no wind to launch. And the Soul fabric seems to repel the water)
• All foil kites like a helper for landing. However I've landed the Soul on the back lines myself easily with no problems or tangles
• Downwind on a foilboard is where the Soul really shines. Fantastic drift makes it easy to control and keep in the sky where you want it. Heavier LEI kites cannot compare
• You have to fly the Soul when new for about 5 hours for it to stretch the lines into perfect position then it really feels sweet
• Biiigg wind range

You also need to fly the Soul for a couple of hours to really get a feel for the kite. A couple of runs on a TT won't give you time to get the most out of the kite. It really needs to be used with a foilboard to see how good this kite is. I've yet to have a day with light enough wind to say I can't get flying on my foilboard, and this is a small 6m foil! Granted I'm light and I do have a Moses 633 as one of my foils :D

Now I must disclose that I sell Flysurfer kites as well as other brands. Over the past 20 years I have used foil kites and Arcs previously and found too many downsides, and therefore have a range of LEI kites which work well for me. But the more I fly the Soul the better it feels.

Downsides: It's expensive. In Australia good foil kites like Souls and Hyperlinks aren't cheap. However the Soul seems built to last. No zips anywhere to corrode when packed away, all bridle lines available as spare parts along with other hardware. Bridles have easy adjustment checking and there is also additional tuning capability built inside the kite. I think that Flysurfer recommends speedsystem bridle replacement at 250 hours which is a lot of kiting and seems to reflect a materials strategy that is designed for longevity. So considering this and the wind range you may needs less kites and update them less often. This may equalise the price differential.
If you're in Australia and in NSW and want to try these kites feel free to contact me.

Have fun, Dave
Umm,

You do realize that u are comparing apples against oranges? Moses 633? Have no idea what that is.


As I said, and the user reported after me, 12m is quite slow with steering.
6m pivots well? Sure, it is 6m.

Plus, there are reports an6m will overfly the wind window. Just saying, search this forum. Overflying is quite dangerous on a foil...

Remember, there are a lot of “real” amateurs, as u called me, who will buy this kite as a first foil. And Im not one of them.

It is a good kite tho. Cant fault it. But saying that it will replace the whole quiver says more about the rider than the reality. For me, it is horses for courses.

I mean, u selling it, so...Its strange how many sellers are reporting all glory, its little too much me thinks.

D.
Ahh Downunder. Read a bit about you, thought you'd take the bait :D

Apples, oranges, my good man we are talking about kitesurfing here! I'll just accept you had a minor brain fart about fruit.

Now your next comment about not knowing what a Moses 633 is tells us all a lot about your knowledge. Over here on the east coast we have google which can tell you all about a Moses 633 foil, one of the most talked about foils this year.

Of course a 12m Soul can be slow in steering compared to a tube kite if a) you're not experienced with turning a foil, b) you're comparing a 12m foil with a 12m tube kite and it goes on, but thats enough for now. Suffice to say a 12m Soul or Hyperlink could replace a 17-18m tube kite power wise for many users. Accordingly a 6m Soul can replace a range of tube kites for my weight from 5m to 9m. The characteristics are different, not good or bad just depends on what you like after you have used a given kite long enough to form a reasonable opinion. I use tube kites as well and sell them too. I reckon all the kites I sell are great :D

There are reports that people lighting farts can spontaneously explode leaving absolutely no trace :o But really, that's bullshit just like the propensity of the 6m Soul to overfly the wind window. You should know that all high aspect foils fly further forward in the wind window, but in my experience the 6m Soul drifts like something that drifts really well. And as much as I've tempted it to overfly while regularly crashing my foil board it shows no such desire.

Yes, I would have to say you would be an amateur to just buy a foil kite without any knowledge of how they work just as much as you would be an amateur to buy a tube kite online and try it out on a crowded beach with no knowledge of how it works. The foil kite buyer would be more cashed up however if they were buying new :D
I taught myself how to kite back in the days when two line kites were the latest thing and safety gear was something you had add yourself. Broke ribs and my neck on some of the basic gear back then. Much more advice now to help you learn to kite and decide what you need. You'd be crazy to not take advantage of that.

It's a good kite as you agree, and many others who use the Soul rather than selling it, (them be buyers), also agree. If you've used foil kites over the past 20 years you'll understand that kites like the Flysurfer Soul and Ozone Hyperlink have cracked a sweet spot where they actually can be used for a wide range of kitesurf, land & snow activities and are really great on foilboards. I do like a tube kite on my surfboard but I am gonna try surfing with the 6m Soul on short lines :D

When it all comes down to it, opinions are like arse holes, everyone has one. But factual experience comes from spending time and learning to get the most out of a given item. You seem to have a desire to take down what you see as hype and replace it with your own hype. It's still a democracy here and you're free to do so but be careful not to cross the dickhead line :D

BTW didn't you get a lecca lecca 11 MINIMAbeta as per the last quote here viewtopic.php?f=197&t=2400110&p=1028987 ... r#p1028987
How about a detailed report/comparative test unless I've missed one you've posted...

Have fun, Dave


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