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Flysurfer Soul

For all foil kite riders
slowboat
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Re: Flysurfer Soul

Postby slowboat » Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:52 am

TomW wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:05 am
omg wrote:
Wed Jan 30, 2019 8:25 pm
Well, a question; what would you choose for marginal wind kite as I believe you need the power and there’s a limit in the amount of power which kites generate. I understand if you ride soul 12m in 10-15 knots then it’s not abt lightwind anymore but more abt boosting, however, for 6-8 knots the story might be different plus pretty much every kite will be slow in those winds?

Also,in my case, I need a kite for snowkiting as well, and on snow the only fun thing is jumping, I’ve been riding too long to get kick out of anything else on snow.

In a perfect world, I’d have 25knots steady wind, nice waves and be only riding strapless sb :o

Btw, a friend of mine uses his soul 6m for wave riding, go figure! :wink:
Hi, in 6-8 knots im rolling out my used Sonic 2 13m. The hyperlink 9m ul is not going to get me up and going. ( 10 knots- is good). And im not going to be drifting or riding any swell in that either unless the swell is cross wind.
I´ve asked this question in another thread- exactly same question really- what foil kite works best in 6-8 with big hydrofoil wing, that is as fast and agile as can be.
Ive looked at other 12m kites like Soul - but my friend who is competent foil flyer has dropped his Soul 12 in conditions i have no problems on Sonic 2 13m ( same session he swam, I kited, and i am not super proficient with Sonic 2) , so im skeptical.
Hyperlink UL 12 is according to experts not really LW kite.
Heard Chronos 3 UL 13 would be nice, but too costly to buy without testing ( difficult/impossible to get test).
Other kites like Concept air seem to get good review- but a niche brand. cant test.
Sticking with the Sonic 2 13m for the time being...

Let us know what you find!
You mentioned Concept Air. I strongly recommend you take a closer look. Ben has been doing this for a very long time and is passionate and committed to making excellent kites for specific purposes. I think they are probably more popular in Europe than North America.

Kristan
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Re: Flysurfer Soul

Postby Kristan » Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:56 am

omg wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:59 am

This is interesting, because Soul is quite a bit lighter than Sonic (Soul 12 is even lighter than the 11 Sonic), and also has more depth in the profile, so I would assume it's more tolerant to change in wind, and also read that the internal pressure seems very good with Soul, but perhaps there's more to low winds stability than these factors?
In theory it might be stable, but not in reality.

If there is smooth wind without turbulence or sudden gusts, then it might be stable. Otherwise not so. Especially Soul tends to misbehave at the edge of the wind window. If the wind is quite strong it's mostly fine. But in lighter and turbulent winds if you leave Soul hanging at the edge of the wind window, get ready that at some point it would nosedive, collapse, fold in half and fall. Sometimes it's preventable if you will start to pull your steering line really fast, but quite often all lines go too slack beyond recovery.

In terms of internal air pressure this kite ain't that great either. Otherwise collapses would be much rarer occurrence and it would just drift back keeping its shape. I mean it does so sometimes... sometimes. This kite is not that airtight. When I landed it for a small break, to catch a breath for a minute or two, when I launch it again it flaps the wingtips, like it lost 1/3 of internal air pressure. Maybe on the water situation would be different, when layer of water would seal the seams and other ways for the air to escape.

Those things happened not only to me, but confirmed by other Soul owners.

kiste
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Re: Flysurfer Soul

Postby kiste » Thu Jan 31, 2019 11:34 am

Interesting, i know some people who say, that the 12 Soul feels very well powered in 10 Knots and they changed to a 10m for get going in 7-8 Knots with big foils. So i think personally to get me a 10m for maybe 7-8 up to 14 Knots on the foil. With those big foils it only has to get you up onto the board, the speed needed for lifting the foil is so marginal.

tomtom
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Re: Flysurfer Soul

Postby tomtom » Thu Jan 31, 2019 12:01 pm

I dont like Soul, But its one of most stable foil kite on market. Most others including Sonic and Sonic 2 are far less stable. All kites can overfly and collapse. Soul is inherently more stable than sonic - is lighter - so less momentum to overshoot you, is lower AR, and thicker profile all atributes to be more stable. Speculations about other things are completely meaningless so is making assumption from one guy swim and i did not. Is Soul more stable than competent LEI kite? In stronger gustier wind - I dont think so but its valid for all foil kites.

TomW
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Re: Flysurfer Soul

Postby TomW » Thu Jan 31, 2019 12:36 pm

Omg,
I really don't know. But I've been out another time in light wind ( at swedish Nationals) . I was on my Sonic for first time. Another guy, way better than me( I suck at racing) and he had his Soul 12 bow tie. My Sonic was tricky but I didn't drop it.
I'm not claiming anything. Just my extremely limited observation. All other information I read says otherwise.
These winds were 6-10 variable, not turbulence or shifts in direction. Could be rider error.
But if guys better than me are dropping kite, and I'm not, either it's the kite or I'm better flyer than I realize...
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cwood
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Re: Flysurfer Soul

Postby cwood » Thu Jan 31, 2019 12:59 pm

tomtom wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 12:01 pm
I dont like Soul, But its one of most stable foil kite on market. Most others including Sonic and Sonic 2 are far less stable. All kites can overfly and collapse. Soul is inherently more stable than sonic - is lighter - so less momentum to overshoot you, is lower AR, and thicker profile all atributes to be more stable. Speculations about other things are completely meaningless so is making assumption from one guy swim and i did not. Is Soul more stable than competent LEI kite? In stronger gustier wind - I dont think so but its valid for all foil kites.
In general you are correct....there are so many variables here it makes it impossible to make definitive statements. IMPOSSIBLE :
- perception vs reality of wind strength (there are as many who brag about big wind as light wind exploits)
- steady wind vs lull and how much variation to the down side
- wind on the water vs aloft
- wing size
- kiter experience with foils and light wind
- techniques (even the best light wind kiters can get bitten by a super lull or a brain fart where you don't keep a kite moving at the wrong time)
- line lengths
- kite tune state (big factor)
- kite weight vs size in a model line (13 s2 vs 15 S2 vs 18 S2 for example)

My experiences (again totally subject to human perceptions...although I do have some measuring devices) My Soul specific experiences are just beginning and I have a 15m still in its factory packaging but I have hundreds of hours on the Speed 3's, Speed 5's, Sonic 2's and now Souls (mainly high wind on the Souls but some minimum viable wind on the 12m). I have switched completely to Souls 8, 10, 12, 15 and sold all the others for the simple reason that on average it is better at everything as a foil kite (that are important to me)

- in all cases line extension to 26m makes a massive difference in the low end of a kite range
- Big wing vs race wings allow much smaller kite ranges but you can still do very well sub 10 kts on race wings with the right kite combo
- Speed 5's are simply too heavy and don't work well on foil level winds
- Sonic 2 15m on extensions with constant attention performs quite well in legit 7-8 knots, lulling to 5 -6 and you are likely swimming. (I have a high end wind meter in a location I frequently launch)
- My sense has been that the 12m soul on extensions is almost equivalent to 15m sonic 2 but too early to say.
- The biggest I will go on Soul is 15m because I see little benefit to go to 18 on foil. Would go from race wing to 633 if its extremely light...mainly because you come up on the wing with any movement at all.

Just observations and experiences.

drsurf
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Re: Flysurfer Soul

Postby drsurf » Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:41 pm

I use a 6m Soul for 10 knots and above and a 10m Soul below 10 knots. Generally I'm on a Moses 633 when using the 10m Soul and I weigh 65kg. I've had no problems with the kite overflying, bow tieing or collapsing in any way. When learning to foil I have once hit the water with the tip of the kite at speed and rolled the kite wrapping a line which prevented relaunch and another time had the wind stop completely and swing 180° which rolled the kite in the lines and had to swim in. In both these occasions the same result would have occurred with an LEI kite. I do use a 5m Naish Boxer single strut LEI above 15 knots and and am thinking of a smaller, say 3m or 3.5m kite, maybe a Peak4, for strong winds on surf foils like the 633. You just don't need much kite on a foil unless you're racing.

Where I kite the wind is generally good and steady with a good launch area with the wind coming cross onshore over a long fetch making it very steady. However go inland at all and the wind is much more variable and even a Soul would need some practised skill to perform at its best. However like others I have found the Soul to be the best foil kite I have used, when set up correctly it performs exactly as Flysurfer advertising describes. I've crashed mine too many times to count and even in marginal winds it relaunches quickly and easily compared to any other kite I've tried. I'm sure in the right shifty wind I could get it to overfly, bow tie etc but just plain foil common sense should help you avoid these situations and in my experience it is less likely to do these things than any other kite I've used.

TomW, from reading your posts, I'm not sure you've flown a Soul much if at all but made plenty of posts comparing your Hyperlink and Sonic to others on a Soul. I would urge you to have a good session or two on a similar size Soul to make a more accurate comparison with your kites.

Have fun, Dave

fernmanus
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Re: Flysurfer Soul

Postby fernmanus » Fri Feb 01, 2019 6:00 am

I have found the Soul to be a very stable kite, but I am comparing it to my experience with the Speed 5, Sonic 2, and, Chrono 2.

I have noticed that kiters that are new to foils struggle with the Soul. The Soul is not a kite that you can just let fly overhead in turbulent wind, it is no PL ARC. It does have to be flown actively in puffy wind or it can overfly, but so can a large LEI.

It takes experience, patience, and observation to learn how to maximize your experience flying a foil kite. I see a lot of newbies stall the kite by sheeting in too much or flying the kite at the edge of the window in light wind. There are some nuances to flying foil kites, once learned you are rewarded with no pumping, better hangtime, and better range.

tomtom
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Re: Flysurfer Soul

Postby tomtom » Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:45 am

1+

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Carlos_C
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Re: Flysurfer Soul

Postby Carlos_C » Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:49 am

All these newer kites are a dream compared to what we used to use. Landboarding in gusty winds on playing fields in London with Psycho 1 or Mastair is a real challenge - you really had to watch the kite - keep it slightly powered up - as the kite would constantly fly over your head and collapse when at rest - a great way to get your Kite Ninja skills honed though


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