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Flysurfer hard/soft steering line question
Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:44 pm
by Flyfish
What would happen if you were to remove the hard/soft steering line altogether? From my understanding the steering would be full soft? Is that correct? Or would it be full hard?
(Unfortunately that conection I don't actually understand).
Thanks for the insights
Re: Flysurfer hard/soft steering line question
Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:59 pm
by Nem0
Sorry but I don't understand what you are meaning by soft-/hard steering? Where so you want to change this?
Re: Flysurfer hard/soft steering line question
Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:54 pm
by jakemoore
Flyfish wrote: ↑Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:44 pm
What would happen if you were to remove the hard/soft steering line altogether? From my understanding the steering would be full soft? Is that correct? Or would it be full hard?
(Unfortunately that conection I don't actually understand).
Thanks for the insights
Full soft and a possibility of backstall. Easy enough to try.
The WAC line connects A and B riser. At some level of pulling the bar when the line becomes tight, A moves with B increasing bar force and limiting the angle of attack between A and B.
Re: Flysurfer hard/soft steering line question
Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:50 pm
by Flyfish
Ah! Ok. That makes sense now.
I like full soft, but hate back stall more, so I guess I'll keep it on.
Re: Flysurfer hard/soft steering line question
Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:09 am
by foilholio
It changes the ratio of the mixer at the point it engages. Ratio increases from 421 to 620 (or 310) to pull Z more. Results in camber increase with more lift and worse L/D. More bar pressure because of mainly A is supported by mixer at 1/4 to bar but also more tension on Z. You also get better relaunch with it. It engages earlier the shorter it is. With it at full length it rarely engages but I would say it still engages when relaunching. Is it needed? no not at all. Is there a benefit to using it ,yes. You can use it to increase camber at the very lowest bar point, so it doesn't affect L/D for normal riding but lowers stall and increases lift to give better pull/power for water starting etc. Other things it also does are reduces bar throw on Z by 1/4( based on mixer ratio) and it gives a front line steering effect. If you remove it you will notice lighter rear line forces when oversheeting say for relaunch, backstall and pivot turns.
Re: Flysurfer hard/soft steering line question
Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:02 pm
by kitexpert
foilholio wrote: ↑Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:09 am
It changes the ratio of the mixer at the point it engages. Ratio increases from 421 to 620 (or 310) to pull Z more. Results in camber increase with more lift and worse L/D. More bar pressure because of mainly A is supported by mixer at 1/4 to bar but also more tension on Z. You also get better relaunch with it. It engages earlier the shorter it is. With it at full length it rarely engages but I would say it still engages when relaunching. Is it needed? no not at all. Is there a benefit to using it ,yes. You can use it to increase camber at the very lowest bar point, so it doesn't affect L/D for normal riding but lowers stall and increases lift to give better pull/power for water starting etc. Other things it also does are reduces bar throw on Z by 1/4( based on mixer ratio) and it gives a front line steering effect. If you remove it you will notice lighter rear line forces when oversheeting say for relaunch, backstall and pivot turns.
No, false, wrong.
Re: Flysurfer hard/soft steering line question
Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:17 pm
by jakemoore
kitexpert wrote:No, false, wrong.
Maybe a CAD would help us understand?
Re: Flysurfer hard/soft steering line question
Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:36 pm
by kitexpert
No, I'm starting to having enough of these BS corrections. I don't know why it should be me.
Re: Flysurfer hard/soft steering line question
Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:10 pm
by Regis-de-giens
The theoretical analysis of foilholio is valuable overall. I only would like to comment the improvement of the backstall , in light wind (but this the principal configuration when backstall is a problem) : when backstall appears in light you first need to decrease AoA , so sheet-out the bar (and often even trim). So this WAC hard/Soft steering line will not engage at that moment and will be no use.
To me the main consequence is that it should produce a bit more pull at the end of the sheeting-in without generate backstall when fully powered (maybe that was your point), so in windy conditions, but not experienced personally to be honest.
To answer the question IMO you can remove it if you want, none of modern kites have and use standard 1 : 2 : 4 mixer test like FS one without this line . But some kiters like foilholio like it so better try !
Re: Flysurfer hard/soft steering line question
Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:04 am
by jakemoore
kitexpert wrote: ↑Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:36 pm
I don't know why it should be me.
It has to be you. Nobody else has the expertise. Who else could get foilholio to write a 17 page essay to illustrate the fact that wings bend?
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