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Kitech FRS

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kitexpert
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Re: Kitech FRS

Postby kitexpert » Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:20 pm

So far I have 0 collapses/hindenburgs on Ultras, but it is true I haven't pushed it to very low winds. I have no reason not to be happy with them, they are enormously more reactive kites than any foil and it has superior bar feel. I also appreciate LEI safety when I'm further out.

You apparently had several incidents on your first try of FRS. I don't need that shit any more.

I use custom hf's and I have tested several others both carbon and aluminium ones, different wings and mast lengths. I am not at all in race hf, just cruising around and for this purpose Ultras are plenty efficient enough. When boosting, snowkiting or during longer trips I prefer and use more efficient kites.

For me these mid AR foil kites are not very inspiring, they are too much jack-of-all-trades. Only exception is of FS Soul which is in class of its own by its design and performance.

tomtom
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Re: Kitech FRS

Postby tomtom » Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:23 pm

You must be real kitexpert to judge kite just from video and look.
I think must edit my own option based on actual flying all these kites personally and try not to be fooled by this deceiving experience.

kitexpert
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Re: Kitech FRS

Postby kitexpert » Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:41 pm

Yeah, I am. Been doing this perhaps too much and for too long... When I see a foil kite collapsing I know what is behind it. I have made a foil kite which has 0 collapse during years of use, 0. And some which collapsed all the time :)

br44
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Re: Kitech FRS

Postby br44 » Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:04 am

kitexpert wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:41 pm
I have made a foil kite which has 0 collapse during years of use, 0.
Is that Minima Beta? What explains the resistance to collapse?

Regis-de-giens
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Re: Kitech FRS

Postby Regis-de-giens » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:58 am

kitexpert wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:41 pm
Yeah, I am. Been doing this perhaps too much and for too long... When I see a foil kite collapsing I know what is behind it. I have made a foil kite which has 0 collapse during years of use, 0. And some which collapsed all the time :)
It is ridiculous Kitexpert and your interventions become decieving. You should show your skills on some video and get our comments instead of thinking you can deduce all from other's better than them. You should trust more testers like me when not affiliated to a brand;

Seriously, stability depends on spot condition: I never saw any kite not collapsing when reaching their wind speed limit or entering in a turbulent offshore wind like on the video; none, whatever the pilot; it just comes sooner or later. If you look carefully at the video when the collapse arrives, I am trying to body drag with two hydrofoils (mine + a friend of mine), but similar "perturbed" situations can arrive and shall be part of a kite review IMO ; ok, the FRS is not the best on this point in marginal winds, your loved Soul is slightly better, but not the best among recent foils (I saw several sizes of Soul collapsing in mountains or water), and any LEI including Ultra are worse; so who is right ? just open your thoughts out of your spot-specific / medium wind limited experience; A friend of mine got a Pulsion and a Ultra, he sold rapidly its Ultra for a lack of efficiency, speed and stability in very light wind.

One important point is the ability of the kite to recover when an instability happens (light weight and limited ratio helps for that, FRS seem to have average result on this) or relaunch (FRS is very good at this); Neither Airush One, Ultra, nor LF Solo would ever had allowed me to relaunch and come back to shore as you can see on the video, believe it or not.

One friend of mine (kite teacher, surf and hydrofoil) had significant experiences on Ultra (he loves it in surf) , Pulsion (prefered light wind kite) , FRS (prefered plug and play / relaunch / solidity / price), Hyperlink and Soul; now he sold his school and looks for a unic light wind kite for his own use in lakes: he pre-selected FRS (but if light cloth is agreed by Kitech) and Pulsion.
Last edited by Regis-de-giens on Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

slowboat
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Re: Kitech FRS

Postby slowboat » Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:44 pm

kitexpert wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:41 pm
Yeah, I am. Been doing this perhaps too much and for too long... When I see a foil kite collapsing I know what is behind it. I have made a foil kite which has 0 collapse during years of use, 0. And some which collapsed all the time :)
You are joking, right?

stefmoris
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Re: Kitech FRS

Postby stefmoris » Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:00 pm

Hello br44,

My name is Stefano Moris, I am lecca-lecca/MINIMAbeta.

-stef

kitexpert
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Re: Kitech FRS

Postby kitexpert » Tue Feb 05, 2019 5:57 pm

Regis-de-giens wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:58 am
should trust more testers like me when not affiliated to a brand;
I wonder how CA affiliated person would write about their kites.
Regis-de-giens wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:58 am
Seriously, stability depends on spot condition: I never saw any kite not collapsing when reaching their wind speed limit or entering in a turbulent offshore wind like on the video; none, whatever the pilot; it just comes sooner or later. If you look carefully at the video when the collapse arrives, I am trying to body drag with two hydrofoils (mine + a friend of mine), but similar "perturbed" situations can arrive and shall be part of a kite review IMO ; ok, the FRS is not the best on this point in marginal winds, your loved Soul is slightly better, but not the best among recent foils (I saw several sizes of Soul collapsing in mountains or water), and any LEI including Ultra are worse; so who is right ? just open your thoughts out of your spot-specific / medium wind limited experience; A friend of mine got a Pulsion and a Ultra, he sold rapidly its Ultra for a lack of efficiency, speed and stability in very light wind.
Perhaps you have never used a really stable kite. It was quite a lot if not just good luck FRS survived from the collapse in your video, it was a bad collapse. I remember years ago people who had bought brand new expensive Frenzys, they really believed they had best snow kites available. Perhaps they had watched youtube videos of Chasta flying in the mountains :)
Regis-de-giens wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:58 am
One important point is the ability of the kite to recover when an instability happens (light weight and limited ratio helps for that, FRS seem to have average result on this) or relaunch (FRS is very good at this); Neither Airush One, Ultra, nor LF Solo would ever had allowed me to relaunch and come back to shore as you can see on the video, believe it or not.
I believe it. I wouldn't have gone there in the first place or if I had I would have kept my kite in the air. So far 0 collapse/hindenburg with Ultra.
Regis-de-giens wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:58 am
One friend of mine (kite teacher, surf and hydrofoil) had significant experiences on Ultra (he loves it in surf) , Pulsion (prefered light wind kite) , FRS (prefered plug and play / relaunch / solidity / price), Hyperlink and Soul; now he sold his school and looks for a unic light wind kite for his own use in lakes: he pre-selected FRS (but if light cloth is agreed by Kitech) and Pulsion.
I don't need that possible marginal advantage Pulsion has in extremely light wind. I have no trouble to keep kites in the air, problem is kiting itself becomes too lame if wind is too weak. I have used much more efficient kites than any Pulsion, both much bigger and more effective, been there done that. Extending light end marginally is not worth it for me.

kitexpert
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Re: Kitech FRS

Postby kitexpert » Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:06 pm

br44 wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:04 am
Is that Minima Beta? What explains the resistance to collapse?
No, like Stef already wrote.

Main explanation for collapse resistance is stable airfoil. If airfoil is high lift high camber airfoil it is not stable. AR of the wing is also very critical, it is much more difficult if not impossible to make high AR kite as stable as low or mid AR kite. Also kite shape, line row locations, LE stiffeners and some other things affect on stability.

Above is of course for depowerable kites. If kite has some fixed and high enough AoA it can be stable almost no matter what but then flies heavy and pulls constantly without possibility to depower.


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