Without foilholio here to translate (the small bits of information housed between the distracting insults helped me to understand the theory) I'm going to need to ask my own questions on this. The normal way to test for backstall is to pull on max sheeting on the bar and see how long it takes to stall. On my LEIs this might be 10 seconds. For a given set of wind/water conditions I might then trim appropriately. I'm assuming that the same still applies to foil kites? Or does the relative lack of structure make a difference?kitexpert wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 6:17 pmNo doubt there is heavy backstall when B-C is pulled 2x of normal. However Z is pulled less than 2x as much as normally, this decreases achievable max L and increases back stall tendency even more. Excessive pull of B-C makes kite fly and behave slower compared to linear or camber increasing AoA increase.
Positive thing is this high pull for B-C helps to fight front stalling, however at this stage some depowerability is already lost. This is (mainly) because of wing instability, it is not a mixer or bridle issue.
Heavy backstall on bar is dangerous for boosting: when kite stalls in the middle of the jump you will drop like a rock. Then good luck with pushing bar out and hoping Jacko-Pansh gets alive again
s2000kiter has talked about the jackomixer in terms of practical experience on here the most. He has also made the change onto an A15 12m (see his thread 'I sold my 12m soul for.....'). Most of his early testing was with the Genesis but its probable that the results still hold through to the A15 (which he has also flown with the mod). He tried the pulley bar first and didn't find the results to be worthwhile. From memory they made things acceptable but not nice enough that you would willing let someone else have a try on it. The jackomixer takes about 15-20 minutes first time around (watch video, pause, replicate, play video etc).PugetSoundKiter wrote: Thanks for the update F-Bear, Your posts save me experimentation and wondering time.
To summarize, please clarify if these are your findings so far?
- Kite No Modification, Normal 1:1 Bar, 20m Lines. OK setup, but slow turning, needs too much bar throw and/or very long trimming.
- Kite No Modification, Pulley 2:1 Bar, 15m Lines. Great setup, drawback is bar clutter.
- Kite Jackov Modification, Normal 1:1 Bar, 12m Lines. Not a good setup, lines may be too short for the kite to fully open.
- Kite Jackov Modification, Normal 1:1 Bar, 18m Lines. Great setup, rapid depower, drawback may be limited reverse launch.
Wondering what your opinion is on Pulley Bar -vs -Jackov mixer (assuming with same length lines)?
Thanks F-Bear. I do plan to try the Jackov 3:2:1 mixer and will report back.F-Bear wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:47 pmyes, that summary is dead on ! If you have an A15, try the Jackomixer. very easy to do, and fully reversible if you don't like it. But you will !
BTW Mr. PugetSoundKiter, I kited up there a few summers ago, man oh man it was great. Jetty Island and also some place way north...can't recall name but a bay by a farmer's field, you had to walk a km from parking to launch but Epic place. And the winds are so smooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooth !
thanks for the info, looks like both Pansh and Peak4's can be flown with a standard 4 line setup (just ditch the 5th line on the pansh kite?).
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