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Flysurfer Peak 4

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Flyboy
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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby Flyboy » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:22 pm

Jyoder wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:52 pm
Can you water start in lower wind if your kite is wet and heavy because, by your logic, it now “has a bigger power spike”?

Maybe I should start dunking my kite before light wind sessions!
No, because as tomtom pointed out there are a number of different factors at play, particularly in light wind. It seems to me (from observation with no mechanical expertise) that in jumping C kites deliver a more powerful power spike while foil kites deliver more float.

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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby Flyboy » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:57 pm

I'm not sure a "power spike" is helpful in any aspect of foiling. You want predictable, consistent power. When I think about water starting a foil, the downstroke gets me moving forward, but it's the upstroke that gets me up on the foil. I'm thinking a light kite moves more easily on the upstroke in light wind. A heavy & (especially) wet kite is going to react more sluggishly in light wind when you're trying to turn the momentum from the downstroke into the upstroke.

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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby jumptheshark » Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:04 pm

Flyboy wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:57 pm
I'm not sure a "power spike" is helpful in any aspect of foiling.
? The whole reason the 3m is viable is so little wind is power spike. Its a big part of what makes the 4m such an amazing kite.

Foiling all you need is a power spike. You only need to maintain a fraction of the power other boards require.
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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby Flyboy » Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:14 pm

jumptheshark wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:04 pm
Flyboy wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:57 pm
I'm not sure a "power spike" is helpful in any aspect of foiling.
? The whole reason the 3m is viable is so little wind is power spike. Its a big part of what makes the 4m such an amazing kite.

Foiling all you need is a power spike. You only need to maintain a fraction of the power other boards require.
Yes - but it's relatively speaking a very small power spike & it comes from the kite being so small & quick. What you want (at least in carving foiling) is the opposite - the ability to depower. You want to apply small inputs of power when you need it & depower when you don't. Woo jumping would be the exception to that, but I think foiling woo jumpers prefer foil kites that float rather than give an explosive power spike.

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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:03 pm

Flyboy wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:57 pm
I'm not sure a "power spike" is helpful in any aspect of foiling. You want predictable, consistent power. When I think about water starting a foil, the downstroke gets me moving forward, but it's the upstroke that gets me up on the foil. I'm thinking a light kite moves more easily on the upstroke in light wind. A heavy & (especially) wet kite is going to react more sluggishly in light wind when you're trying to turn the momentum from the downstroke into the upstroke.

I love the power spike for foiling - without that you need somewhat more wind to get up foiling, or a bigger kite (if sufficient wind for it to fly well).

And you are right, that was my point, the lighter smaller kites has more powerspike, especially when flown up or sideways, so you can keep power continuously if you want/need that, flying it up and down or looping it - power all the way, as opposed to heavier LEI kites.

Kites without powerspike are boring and dull, for me at least, but supereasy especially for beginners.

You need a bigger kite in the same wind, when less powerspike, but everything is easy in terms of power delivery and sheeting (and slow).
Sometimes an advantage if you just want to park and ride, yes.

Comparing a 5 m2 Peak4, to a normal 7 m2 LEI (about the same foil lowend I think) in the lower range , the LEI will totally lack the powerspike, except when flown DOWN where you get a bit of power, and feel dull and slow and heavy (which they are).
When flown powered, in lots of wind, or on twintips or waveboards - the LEI has more fluid powerspike, indeed.
But not for foiling, here the powerspike gets "lost" because of the weight, so no acceleration available.

It is the very reason why most prefer a bit smaller kites, as they can ride (foil) in the same wind as bigger ones, because of the crazy powerspike, and be way faster and more fun :rollgrin:
That does not only go for foiling, also for other classic boards.

Others like big powerspikeless kites, personal preferences only :D

When is a kite too sensitive and aggressive?
Can it be too much even for those of us who like it?

Very individual :wink:

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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby geron » Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:22 pm

I totally agree that power spike is very important for this small peaks.

In a maybe related issue: I would like to know what people that tack, 360 and foot switch think of the ability of these peaks to learn all of those things? (I can go in incredible down-winds on both tacks and both toe-side and heal side in both but don't seem to get myself to do these tacks and foot switches yet on my small board and 633 Moses wing). I just figured it would come natural once I was better at all the rest.

I lent my 4m peak and board to a very talented rider this weekend and he said that maybe this is not the right kite to learn all this (even though he could do all this on my equipment without ever trying peaks); on the other hand, they are my loved kites (and the ones I learned to hydrofoil with) so, if I can get an opinion on this from this community, I would be very much obligated.

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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby Frankieboy » Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:42 pm

geron wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:22 pm
I totally agree that power spike is very important for this small peaks.

In a maybe related issue: I would like to know what people that tack, 360 and foot switch think of the ability of these peaks to learn all of those things? (I can go in incredible down-winds on both tacks and both toe-side and heal side in both but don't seem to get myself to do these tacks and foot switches yet on my small board and 633 Moses wing). I just figured it would come natural once I was better at all the rest.

I lent my 4m peak and board to a very talented rider this weekend and he said that maybe this is not the right kite to learn all this (even though he could do all this on my equipment without ever trying peaks); on the other hand, they are my loved kites (and the ones I learned to hydrofoil with) so, if I can get an opinion on this from this community, I would be very much obligated.
the only problem is that it doesn't relaunch so for learning tricks I prefer my Clouds

I don't have problems switching feet with the peak as I don't really use the kite's lift, only pop the foil before switching
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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby jumptheshark » Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:44 pm

Have relaunched peaks at least 20 time now. Have only only failed once due to being right at the shore. Relaunch is not automatic, but learn the skill and its totally viable.

For sure geron, your dead on. It's a little harder to learn any maneuver that benefits from kite lift through the move. If you can tack well with a 3m peak you can tack anything.
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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby Flyboy » Mon Nov 23, 2020 5:54 pm

The ability to create power spikes, by moving the kite through the power window, is the fundamental characteristic that makes kiting what it is. Mega looping is the extreme example of using the power spike. For foiling - at least "surf foiling" - the most useful characteristics are the ability of the kite to drift without much line tension, depower so that the amount of pull can be minimized, & turn fast without generating too much pull. eg Clouds. Heavy kites don't drift well & don't perform well in light wind.

As far as I can see you don't need much of a power spike on a foil because the glide of the foil is so efficient.This is especially true when you are turning on a wave face. Not to say you don't need ANY power spike ... but not that much. What you DO want is for the kite to turn fast so that it keeps up with you.

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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Nov 23, 2020 7:02 pm

Flyboy wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 5:54 pm
The ability to create power spikes, by moving the kite through the power window, is the fundamental characteristic that makes kiting what it is. Mega looping is the extreme example of using the power spike. For foiling - at least "surf foiling" - the most useful characteristics are the ability of the kite to drift without much line tension, depower so that the amount of pull can be minimized, & turn fast without generating too much pull. eg Clouds. Heavy kites don't drift well & don't perform well in light wind.

As far as I can see you don't need much of a power spike on a foil because the glide of the foil is so efficient.This is especially true when you are turning on a wave face. Not to say you don't need ANY power spike ... but not that much. What you DO want is for the kite to turn fast so that it keeps up with you.

Hmmm, I can see why you got such a different view than most of us then?

IMO and experience, it is quite the opposite.

For kitefoilng you want as big a powerspike as possible, either by using longer lines, or even better, using faster smaller kites on shorter lines.

This way you can get sufficient power to lift your ass out of the water, and to get up on foil.

Once on foil you want as low power as possible, which can be achieved using smaller kites, or kites with even more depower like foil kites.

As simple as that.

Whereas for waveboards or twintips, you got loads of drag from the board most of the time, so you dont need much more power to start, than to ride, so you wont be overpowered once going.
Like you would on a hydrofoil.

When riding waves it is sometimes even more important with powerspike, as if you are in the lower end of a kitesize's range (and you definitely want low kitepower if waves got some size), you can just get the needed power on demand instantly with one hand, letting the kite accelerate no matter where it is in the window.

So no, drift is not everything, in fact only a small part - also important yes, but powerspike so you can use a smaller kite and still be perfectly powered once up, and power on demand in a split second when needed in lulls or waveriding, is key.

If you dont want that, as you write (but I honestly doubt you really want that in the long run) , I dont think the Peak4 kite is for you...

Go with a slower kite instead, bigger and somewhat heavier, that drifts well, and use short lines.

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