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Flysurfer Peak 4

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Frankieboy
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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby Frankieboy » Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:47 am

Peter_Frank wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:28 am
you get less wear when having more sizes.
:D :D :D

never thought of that

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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby Frankieboy » Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:51 am

The answer should probably be somewhere in the 265 pages of this post but:

- how many knots would I gain in lowend with a 6m versus 5m?
- how much fun fctor would you loose?

Tx :thumb:

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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby Peter_Frank » Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:22 am

Frankieboy wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:51 am
The answer should probably be somewhere in the 265 pages of this post but:

- how many knots would I gain in lowend with a 6m versus 5m?
- how much fun fctor would you loose?

Tx :thumb:

I think you gain about 2 knokts with the 6 over the 5, as lowend.

But going from say 11 to 9 knots as lowend, is a big deal IMO, when you love funfoiling and wavefoiling.

I dont miss any "fun" factor with the 6.

The thing is, when going to bigger sizes than 6, you gain little extra lowend, but you lose ALL the fun factor, not just a bit.

So as many of us say, the 6 is the biggest with the wow fun factor, thus a must have for many foilers.

8) Peter

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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby flaps1111 » Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:30 am

What size would you choose for a wind between 14 and 18 knots for 85kg and the Moses Onda 4 or 5m ?
A bit off topic, It is curious but there is no second hand market in any size or any version, at least in several internet searches what is a good sign I think.

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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby Peter_Frank » Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:42 am

Both.

I am 78 kg and change to the 4 m2 around 15 knots.
But at 18 knots I go 3 m2.

4 m2 sweetspot is 16-17 knots for me.

8) Peter
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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby Onda » Wed Oct 20, 2021 11:52 am

I´m 75 kg on a W633.
I use the 5 m² from 11 to 15/17 kts. From there the 4 m², but I find the 4 m² a bit powerless in under 17/18 kts. The 4 m² can take a lot of wind and still feel very comfortable, wind range is much larger than for the 5 m².
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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby jumptheshark » Wed Oct 20, 2021 1:06 pm

Flyboy wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 3:21 am
Peter_Frank wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:27 am
Ha haa, I know what you say - my friend has a 4 and a 6.

And many times we are out, it is 5 m2 wind, so he has to make a difficult choice, while I am in the sweetspot :rollgrin:

8) Peter
As the owner of a 6m & 4m Peaks with well over 100 hours using them this year, I have to say this has not been my experience at all. I have almost never found myself wishing I had a 5m. It obviously depends on the local conditions where you are kiting, but in my experience it is very rare for the wind to stay consistently at a level where you're not a little overpowered or a little underpowered at times. When you go out you can never really be sure where the wind will stay over the course of a session: will it pick up a bit ... or will it drop off?

This summer was an unusually light summer for wind where I kite. There were many days when the wind was around 10 knots when I went out & stayed in the 10 - 12 knot range for the whole session. On the other hand there were days when the wind picked up to 13 - 15 knots for a while. I would perhaps have been more comfortable on the 5m, but would not have come in to switch to a 5m if I had one - not worth it as there's no guarantee the wind wouldn't drop again. If the wind picked up to 15 - 16 knots I would have come in to switch to the 4m. So, although there were periods during a session where I might have preferred to be on a 5m, I can't say there was a single session where a 5m would have been an obviously superior choice.

Having said that ... I just picked up a 5m. Went out with it this afternoon perfectly powered up ... & then after 15 - 20 minutes the wind picked up to 17 - 20 knots & I had to come in to switch to the 4m. I didn't get to spend that much time on the 5m, but my impression was that it's more like the 6m than the 4m. This is not surprising given the mathematics of the relative sizes.

During a one hour session on the 4m the wind continued to pick up until it was in the 20 - 25 knot range. I was starting to feel uncomfortably powered up, so I came in & decided to give my 3.5m Boxer a try. Was an absolute bitch at first with too much back line tension (even though it didn't look like there was too much back line tension). It was almost impossible to water start as the kite would start to back stall the minute I put pressure on it. Added some extra pigtails & eventually got it to the point where it performed reasonably well. It was still way more difficult to water start with than with a Peak, but once up & riding it worked OK. There's really a different technique using an LEI compared to the Peaks - the sheeting is much more finicky. To me, one of the biggest pluses to the Peaks is the instant & very controllable depower that allows you to trim the kite very easily & precisely to shifts in the wind strength or water surface. I put the 3.5m into the water & number of times while trying to water start - it moves insanely fast & the sweet spot for power seems very small. I had to dive the kite quickly while sheeting out & pointing downwind in order to avoid stalling it.

In any case, I now have a 3 Peak quiver. I'd have to say that while the 5m might be the best one kite choice, I would definitely go with the 6m & the 4m if you're going with a 2 kite quiver. The 6m is good from 10 kts (maybe a bit less) to 14/15 knots, at which point the 4m is viable. I would say the 6m is preferable to the 5m in 10 - 13 kts, so the 5m is the best choice only in the 14-15 kt range - although it obviously also works well in less & more.
I think a lot of that is based on rationalizing not having a 5m. Like Peter said, once you get used to it you will appreciate having it, and there will definitely be many days where it is far and away the better choice. There are quite a few factors that go into choosing a peak size. Many days I "could" ride on either of two or even three sizes but there is definitely a "right" one. With time you get pretty good at figuring which one that is. Forecast, gustiness, rain, swell, directions, and sometimes just how you want to ride can all make one size the better call. The 5m is truly GOLD. It's no 4m, but it outshines the 6 by a country mile. The wear and tear issue is also a key one. These kites flap...... How many tattered flags have you seen flapping in the wind. Minimizing it should be every Peak riders priority, and doing this can severely limit the riding if your overpowered. Spreading the hours over more sizes while also drastically reducing time spent flapping needlessly will be essential for longevity. Done right, these kites should outlast tube kites pound for pound, but done wrong, you could likely shred one in no time. There are a lot of funny contradictions to these kites that might not make sense to those looking into Peaks. They have huge yet small range, they are super safe, yet "don't" relaunch, they are gutless, yet powerful for their size and they are so simple anyone can fly them, but it takes practice and some skill to make them truly shine.

If you want to get the most differentiation out of your Peaks, I suggest you rig them on successively shorter lines as they get smaller. It helps loads with eliminating flapping, massively extends the top end comfort, and helps heaps with deliberating which one is the right size for any given situation. I suggest you keep your 6m on 21m lines for max low end, but suggest you run the 5m on something like 17m lines for a very logical and comfortable step in range.

I am the same weight as Peter, but my ranges skew high compared to him due to shorter lines.
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geron
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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby geron » Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:56 pm

jumptheshark wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 1:06 pm
There are a lot of funny contradictions to these kites that might not make sense to those looking into Peaks. They have huge yet small range
Can you explain more this contradiction? Of all you mention, I don't understand what you mean here

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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby Foil_Adict » Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:20 pm

Got a chance to fly the 13m today. First impression after rolling it out....I have made a HUGE mistake....LoL. Just kidding, but this thing is enormous after only flying the 5 and 3 for the past 2 years. Wind was a little stronger than I was hoping for at around 8-12mph directly onshore. Didn't have time to get on the water but got a good feel for this tractor. Despite being near the top of it's wind range it was very well behaved and easy to fly. Much slower of course with constant pull when sheeted in. Anxious to get it on the water, will be fun finding it lower limits. Ran at it a few times trying to slack the lines,power went away but it drifted back fast enough that I could not get them slack, it remains really stable though which was encouraging. :thumb:
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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby Peter_Frank » Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:25 pm

geron wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:56 pm
jumptheshark wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 1:06 pm
There are a lot of funny contradictions to these kites that might not make sense to those looking into Peaks. They have huge yet small range
Can you explain more this contradiction? Of all you mention, I don't understand what you mean here

They have extreme lowend as they accelerate so fast, and they can be depowered extremely also - huge range.
BUT, the sweetspot range is very very narrow - the range where you feel okay lit just a tad over the "possible to start" limit, but before it starts to flap often when you ride waves or in general.

If you get hit by a gust, you wont get lofted.
But if you crash the kite for too long, you have to pack down (or try to relaunch swimming to the kite)

They dont loft you.
But they are extremely powerful for their size.

They are simple so anyone can fly them.
But to make them truly shine you need practice.


These are the contradictions jumptheshark mentioned - and there are others, like:

They can hang in less wind than ANY other kite.
But they cant ride in this wind.

8) Peter
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