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Flysurfer Peak 4

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Peter_Frank
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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby Peter_Frank » Thu May 21, 2020 7:56 am

Trent hink wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 9:41 pm
Is it even possible to do a 360 with the peak? In my experience, mostly with the 8 and 11 meter, but a few times with the 5 or 4, the kite completely collapses at the point where it reaches zero line tension.

Usually at that point i come off the foil and the kite floats downwind and recovers while airborne.

The peak has very little inertia and no structure. I suspect it is not possible, so all this talk about generating "negative" apparent wind seems moot.

Then again, I could be wrong. I do know enough to know that i do not know everything.

Yes, no difference and easy with the 5 m2.

But why do you say zero line tension?

In a 360 you got loaded lines all the way through :thumb:

Kite is flown up and around in a loop while you and the board make the donut.

But if you do something else, so you got zero line tension, the Peaks will drift better than tubes.

Only thing is, the sheeting is sensitive so one has to learn this and takes a while.

8) Peter

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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby joriws » Thu May 21, 2020 10:33 am

Exactly if on 360 you lose line tension upwind of you kite will start drifting towards you and trick over.

Key is to learn ride spiral with your hydrofoil keeping momentum and line tension = force to counteract true wind push to kite ie apparent wind at proper level for kite to fly. Steeringwise you dive kite as long as possible to get gravity help for kite momentum but trick is correct spiral with hf. Because anchor point must move through the trick to rotate apparent wind window as quickly as possible back to window where true wind will again start assisting kite flight.

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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby joriws » Thu May 21, 2020 10:46 am

Sorry Peter I quickly reading misunderstood what you were saying, re-reading with time we were on same theory.

To add, if on kite following on wave situation you lose line tension the true wind window kicks immediately in for kite drift direction. And kite would be te first to true wind, probably not much lift that way to re-tension lines because kite cannot catch rider as wave moves faster. So maybe lines will re-tension low behind tider when rider gets line lenght distance from kite and kite will first drag and then shoot up back to apparent zenith.

Could Peak survive event like that, thoughs?

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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby palmbeacher » Thu May 21, 2020 12:13 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 2:02 pm
palmbeacher wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 11:42 am
Peter_Frank wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 8:47 am



Very true.

9-10 knots is NOT the range of a 5 m2, only if you weigh "nothing", or have no clue about wind strength...

Once up, which is not possible if no gusts, it is possible to surf waves yes, but not its sweetspot at all, not even close, even with a marginal wind wing in my experience, being average weight.

8) Peter
‘ Too little wind to get my ass out of the water in 8 knots, but that was to be expected with a 5 m2 and 78 kg of course.

Okay, the wind picked up to 9 to 10 knots, and the Peak kite had very good peak power, so now I could start, and once up, I was foiling no problems.’

Peter, just wanted to clarify what you wrote earlier about the 5m as it contradicts what you are saying now?

Which is your favorite kite for the 9-10kts range?

I have no idea...

Probably my 10 m2 onestrut kite or a 9 m2 wavekite is my preferred in this wind, but dont know, as I got the 8 m2 Peak4 now also, but only ridden once.

Even if I was able to get up and ride in 10 knots on my marginal wind wing (Ketos Kruizer 1100), it is still too low for me to choose this size in 9-10 knots.


joriws, I dont get your point, arent we saying the same thing?
My statement is, that if you have apparent wind directly offshore, riding in on a wave, you can have a kite in the air.
Of course it does not contribute to forward pull, only a very small tad if flown to the side, but more likely a bit of drag the wrong direction.

If NO wind, and you get up riding on a wave, you will be able to fly a kite alongside, using the apparent wind to keep it in the air.
Difficult or impossible to start I know, but still possible once up, using the wave energy as the origin of the "apparent wind power" needed to keep the kite flying, besides you surfing the wave.

If you took a skateboard on a downhill road, a day with no wind at all, you could put the Peak on the ground, start rolling down the road, and get the kite up and fly while you skate downhill, apparent wind will make the kite fly just fine while you surf down the road :thumb:

More difficult, close to impossible, if wind is going downhill at your very VMG riding speed, but would still be possible if you ride diagonally from side to side thus getting apparent wind again.
No power contribution, mostly drag from the kite.


The same goes for a wing, when held in the hand in offshore wind, it does not contribute to forward pull, only drag.

8) Peter
Ok, I am still confused: you wrote in an earlier post that you were riding the Peak4 5m in 9-10 knots. But now you again confirm it is ‘too low in 9-10 knots’?

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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby Peter_Frank » Thu May 21, 2020 12:56 pm

I was able to, on a not small board and a marginal wind wing that can ride in less than our 1200 cm2 surf wings, once up to be able to ride in 9-10 knots yes :D

Meaning, way too little wind, as noone would choose a kite so not able to waterstart unless lucky to get a puff and get up.

So using "normal" 800 to 1200 cm2 wings like most of us use nowadays, it would be too low.

Was simply impressed that I could ride, once up, and how "light" and easy the Peak4 in 5 m2 was :naughty:


My estimate on windranges for the average weights and a typical 1200 cm2 surf wing, or a medium 800 cm2 wing (as apparent wind makes the sweetspot quite similar), sweetspots are something like:

11 m2 in 4 to 4½ m/s (8-9 knots)
8 m2 in 5-6 m/s (10-11 knots)
5 m2 in 7-8 m/s (14-15 knots)
4 m2 in 9-10 m/s (18 knots)
3 m2 in 11-12 m/s or more (22 knots)

Please note: This is not their "range", only center of their sweetspots IMO. T.ex the 5 I can use in 11 to 20 knots range :D

A friend wrote to me and asked me yesterday what I thought the sweetspots were, eventhough he knew I only had a few times on the big ones, so could just copy above and add knots instead of m/s (we use the latter here in Denmark for windspeed).
So dont take my word above for anything but what I find the sweetspots are right now.

The 8 an 11 are nothing special, because they lack the peak power the 5 and smaller got, so other kites will be able to go in the same, or lighter if a performance foil kite.

Advantage is though, as late as yesterday I found out, it was REALLY easy to drag out in dead onshore marginal wind, and get home safe, even when too little wind to ride.
THAT was a big plus for the big Peak4's.

8) Peter
Last edited by Peter_Frank on Fri May 22, 2020 8:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby a99 » Thu May 21, 2020 2:40 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 12:56 pm
The 8 an 11 are nothing special, because they lack the peak power the 5 and smaller got, so other kites will be able to go in the same, or lighter if a performance foil kite.
8) Peter
Difficult to understand this sentence, how bigger 8 anbd 11 peaks can have less power than 5m or 4 m peaks?? What do you mean there?

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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby rolfjoosten » Thu May 21, 2020 5:03 pm

tomtom wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 11:37 am
joriws wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 11:02 am
tomtom wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 10:44 am


kiteloop-360 possible is kite rider inertia excersice/trick.

Its just not possible with kite - yet peaks are best kite for approaching it.

You can argue that he is riding in wrong direction - but he is riding in direction which he want and wave dictate not in direction "so his kite doesnt collapse"
I'd still argue that and widen your perspective (Peter Frank's too). Gunnar is *pulling* wing behind him and wing is seeing apparent wind because it is "horizontal". If no apparent wind then wing would be vertical (TE towards sea) if lifted from mid of front of the wing like Gunnar does, like on beach zero wind wing would just hang towards ground. So essentially this is very same trick as kiteloop-360, anchor point moving generating apparent wind for airfoil hauled behind.

What if you put Peak4 flying exactly the same direction as the wing is with Gunnar and wave => rider pulls it. Kite will stay in the air with lines tensioned if there is enough apparent wind for kite to stay airborne (my statement if wave speed = true wind speed, apparent wind would not allow flying the kite). Perhaps easier for rider's balance unhook Peak4 and drag it with your rear hand. With wrist twist you can probably steer it a bit. Check Horst Sergio's unhooked Peak-video on YT.

Again, remember everything is relative. Airplane can lift-off ground with zero or even negative ground speed. Airfoil airspeed is everything what matters. I've landed my hang glider with negative ground speed. Biker riding 10m/s on 5m/s true wind will face opposing wind every driving direction, just 15m/s on headwind and relative headwind 5m/s on opposite tailwind direction.
So i just make humble confession i cannot ride with kite in that condition. Maybe somebody can. But you definitely cannot "just loop" :)
I do think you were misunderstanding my text tomtom. Of course I understand simple physics and agree with you there. But you can generate some apparent wind by moving your kite and keep tension in your lines. Maybe I should not have said "looped" but rather said flying the kite fast through the wind window which I do in a flat figure 8 or in a loop whatever is required at the time depending on the position of the kite...

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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby rolfjoosten » Thu May 21, 2020 5:17 pm

a99 wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 2:40 pm
Peter_Frank wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 12:56 pm
The 8 an 11 are nothing special, because they lack the peak power the 5 and smaller got, so other kites will be able to go in the same, or lighter if a performance foil kite.
8) Peter
Difficult to understand this sentence, how bigger 8 anbd 11 peaks can have less power than 5m or 4 m peaks?? What do you mean there?
I use the Peak 4 in 4m, 5m and 8m. The 4m and 5m are amazing Kites but you don't get the same kick with the 8m. It lacks speed and feels a bit more sluggish. Its definitely still a nice kite but there wouldn't be such a hype around the Peak 4 if they would all feel like the 8m. As Peter writes, one big plus is that they pretty much never drop so you can always bodydrag back home in too light winds. Still a nice and very reasonable 8m kite🤙
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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby Peert » Thu May 21, 2020 5:46 pm

Did someone ever try to put a couple of balloons in the LE as float.? I am convinced peak won't stop easily but if it does it would be nice if it stays afloat. Or even relaunch?

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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby Janus » Thu May 21, 2020 8:43 pm

Peert wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 5:46 pm
Did someone ever try to put a couple of balloons in the LE as float.? I am convinced peak won't stop easily but if it does it would be nice if it stays afloat. Or even relaunch?
:idea: Test with helium filled balloons..


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