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Flysurfer Peak 4

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khaakon
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Flysurfer Peak 4 Kite sizes ?

Postby khaakon » Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:08 am

Hi, cheers for all the info. Made me swap all my old Peaks v2&3's for a range of the new v4's.

I've think I saw somwhere that the 5m would be more like 5,5m (10% gratis!), and had a look at the table of sizes on Flysurfers webpage. https://flysurfer.com/project/peak4/, scroll down. If I go imaginative for a moment, and recalculate the flat sizes from the projected sizes, I get 3m - 4m - 5,5m - 8,5m - 11,5m.

:?: So then, I am just curious if anyone from Flysurfer could clarify, not that the small changes in sizes means a whole damn lot. But for the small sizes and the gap between 3/4/5, it would be useful to know.

I've been a fan of this type of kites since i started kiting with a school used Peak 6m v1 5 years ago, I don't go on water (exept frozen water), but I'm so happy to see that the new version can be useful for hydrofoiling, and that singleskin kites are getting new fans (and makers/brands).

Now I got my paws on 5 - 8 - 11 meter models, but I want to add a smaller kite to the range. There is a 4 m demo-used on sale just atm, which is kinda tempting since it is a very nice bargain with the new Connect bar. But originally I'd thought the 3m would fit nicely into the range from the 5m and would cover any high winds - and also situations like training with others/static flying on vacations etc. It's just that the price difference is 6300/8400, the brand new 3m is then 33% more oljekroner than the good as new 4m. And that 4m just might suit me nicely, and make a good addition to the other sizes, especially if the 5m is 5,5m ...

I do my kiting with a buggy, or a pair of alpine skis, weighing in at approx 70 kgs.
Last edited by khaakon on Sun Jul 21, 2019 3:34 am, edited 4 times in total.

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khaakon
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Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2015 6:50 pm
Kiting since: 2014
Style: Trying...
Gear: Flysurfer Peak4 /4m /5m /8m /11m
Flysurfer Speed5 /9m
Ozone Subzero /7m
BornKite Longstar2 /3,5m
Ozone Ignition /2,5m
6 /9 /12m line ext.
Libre V-Max Full race /18"
MBS Comp 95 ATB
Elan Skis
Underwave seat /Dynabar /2 rings on rope
G-Form pads / Poc Helmet
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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby khaakon » Sun Jul 21, 2019 3:03 am

You know waht - geeky me could even try to answer my own question with a little excel-fu;

Image

Seems to me the projected area sizes given in the table makes for a more even range, and might be the correct one here. The gap between 5m and 8m is the biggest, percentage wise. (eh - that would be between the 5,5m and 8,5m - of course. :naughty: haha)

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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby tomtom » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:12 am

Owning P4 3,4,5 - snowkiting and hydrofoiling

Here is my thoughts

Sizes are perfectly as they are - with no redundant sizes - you dont need to count they are designed just perfect. I think that 8 is biggest size you want to use. 11 is dog - the whole concept work so well because of high wing loading /this gives kite rigidity/ and 11 in low wind work unproportionally worse /to size/ than smaller sizes. So smaller sizes are Lei fast and bigger sizes are about 1/2 of LEI turning speed.

Peaks 4 have big absolute range, but quite small sweet spot - and basically you want to ride them till they start flapping - which is sign you should ride next smaller size.
This is valid for HF - on skis and snowboards the sweet spot is wider because you can compensate for added power with edging more and riding them still flappingless.

I never use 3m on snowkiting - weighting 86 kg and snowboard - i dont want to be in wind where it work in winter. It will be in 30+ knts winds and i dont enjoy these kind of winds in winter as they are gusty and unpleasant /very cold/ in mountains.

I use 3m on HF a LOT from 18 knts and absolutely love it.

hope it helps.

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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby slowboat » Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:40 am

tomtom wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:12 am
Owning P4 3,4,5 - snowkiting and hydrofoiling

Here is my thoughts

Sizes are perfectly as they are - with no redundant sizes - you dont need to count they are designed just perfect. I think that 8 is biggest size you want to use. 11 is dog - the whole concept work so well because of high wing loading /this gives kite rigidity/ and 11 in low wind work unproportionally worse /to size/ than smaller sizes. So smaller sizes are Lei fast and bigger sizes are about 1/2 of LEI turning speed.

Peaks 4 have big absolute range, but quite small sweet spot - and basically you want to ride them till they start flapping - which is sign you should ride next smaller size.
This is valid for HF - on skis and snowboards the sweet spot is wider because you can compensate for added power with edging more and riding them still flappingless.

I never use 3m on snowkiting - weighting 86 kg and snowboard - i dont want to be in wind where it work in winter. It will be in 30+ knts winds and i dont enjoy these kind of winds in winter as they are gusty and unpleasant /very cold/ in mountains.

I use 3m on HF a LOT from 18 knts and absolutely love it.

hope it helps.
Your comments are almost always spot on. I bought P4 partially based on your positive comments and I am grateful for it. Can you elaborate on wing loading and why these kites work so well?

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khaakon
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Gear: Flysurfer Peak4 /4m /5m /8m /11m
Flysurfer Speed5 /9m
Ozone Subzero /7m
BornKite Longstar2 /3,5m
Ozone Ignition /2,5m
6 /9 /12m line ext.
Libre V-Max Full race /18"
MBS Comp 95 ATB
Elan Skis
Underwave seat /Dynabar /2 rings on rope
G-Form pads / Poc Helmet
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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby khaakon » Sun Jul 21, 2019 1:40 pm

tomtom wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:12 am
... Sizes are perfectly as they are - with no redundant sizes - you dont need to count they are designed just perfect. ...
Yeah, I just wanted to figure whether I should aim for the 3m or 4m to extend my quiver of 5 + 8 + 11. And if the sizes were 3-4-5 would make that choice a little more difficult than the more even range of 3-4-5,5. So as it seems from the table of sizes, it is more even than model numbers rounded down makes it seem.

But, yeah, I know i was overthinking it a bit, and that FS would know what they're doing for sizes in a range of kites. And the fact that the 4m is still available hardly used for 30% off kinda nails my bying decision here now. And thanks for your help, very informative.

I should also mention that I've had the Peak 12m (both v2 and v3) for a few years now all together, and it has many-a-times given me the opportunity to ride well in low or even marginal winds. Windstruck Steve @powerkiteforum called it "the session saver", and I quite agree - It has worked very well for my needs on land, both buggy and skis, too often being out on low-wind-days ...

The kite I loved the most so far, has been the P2 9m - one kite quiver, huge range, very civilized except for the fluttering noise and some quirks which I learned to negotiate.
Last edited by khaakon on Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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khaakon
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Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2015 6:50 pm
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Style: Trying...
Gear: Flysurfer Peak4 /4m /5m /8m /11m
Flysurfer Speed5 /9m
Ozone Subzero /7m
BornKite Longstar2 /3,5m
Ozone Ignition /2,5m
6 /9 /12m line ext.
Libre V-Max Full race /18"
MBS Comp 95 ATB
Elan Skis
Underwave seat /Dynabar /2 rings on rope
G-Form pads / Poc Helmet
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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby khaakon » Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:04 pm

Oh, and not everybody would know, so here it is - there's a higher aspect singleskin from Born Kites, more racey I guess;

http://www.born-kite.de/?cat=c102_Race- ... lus--.html

Thread about it on PKF;
http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=33919

Youtube footage;


This kite is not meant for kitesurfing at all, I am sorry I don't mean to hijack the thread, just that not many ppl know about Steffen Born and his ingenious strives in singleskin kitedesign.
Last edited by khaakon on Sun Jul 21, 2019 3:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.

tomtom
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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby tomtom » Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:18 pm

slowboat wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:40 am
Can you elaborate on wing loading and why these kites work so well?
I dont know, its just my theory because i cannot wrap me head about fact why smaller peaks are LEI fast while 11 is dog. Its similar with closer cells smaller sizes are somewhat ok while bigger sizes are trucks. With closer cell there is clear explanation with momentum of trapped air inside of kite /can be several KG on bigger sizes/ But peak has no trapped air, or at least no more than LEI. So i think bigger size just doesnt have enough rigidity to act against in turns. Because rigidity of peaks is purely from wing load. /kg to m2/ Smaller size are proportionaly more loaded so much stiffer. You can clearly see it - 3 and 4 are almost solid in air while 5 is more "soft"
Also tip cells /main difference to v3/ probably arent able to support longer tips on bigger sizes in same manner than on smaller.

But all this is just theory to explain this phenomena of big vs small peaks. I dont know for sure


Why Peaks work so well i honestly dont know.

But effect of wing loading to stability of briddle supported structure is well known. For example smaller speedride wings are and feel much stiffer than bigger paragliding wings. They are also much more stable and resistant to colapses
Last edited by tomtom on Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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tomtom
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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby tomtom » Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:26 pm

khaakon wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 1:40 pm
I should also mention that I've had the Peak 12m (both v2 and v3) for a few years now all together, and it has many-a-times given me the opportunity to ride well in low or even marginal winds. Windstruck Steve @powerkiteforum called it "the session saver", and I quite agree - It has worked very well for my needs on land, both buggy and skis, too often being out on low-wind-days ...
The kite I loved the most so far, has been the P2 9m - one kite quiver, huge range, very civilized except for the fluttering noise and some quirks which I learned to negotiate.

Yea they somewhat works - im probably just too old for big slow kites :) Main thing is they are kites that work better in these winds /with different set of issues/

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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby tomtom » Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:31 pm

khaakon wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:04 pm
Oh, and not everybody would know, so here it is - there's a higher aspect singleskin from Born Kites, more racey I guess;

http://www.born-kite.de/?cat=c102_Race- ... lus--.html

Thread about it on PKF;
http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=33919

Youtube footage;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... 0FZWcrpyu4

This kite is not meant for kitesurfing at all, I am sorry I don't mean to hijack the thread, just that not many ppl know about Steffen Born and his ingenious strives in singleskin kitedesign.
thanks for info!

User avatar
khaakon
Rare Poster
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2015 6:50 pm
Kiting since: 2014
Style: Trying...
Gear: Flysurfer Peak4 /4m /5m /8m /11m
Flysurfer Speed5 /9m
Ozone Subzero /7m
BornKite Longstar2 /3,5m
Ozone Ignition /2,5m
6 /9 /12m line ext.
Libre V-Max Full race /18"
MBS Comp 95 ATB
Elan Skis
Underwave seat /Dynabar /2 rings on rope
G-Form pads / Poc Helmet
Brand Affiliation: None
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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby khaakon » Sun Jul 21, 2019 3:00 pm

tomtom wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:18 pm
... its just my theory because i cannot wrap me head about fact why smaller peaks are LEI fast while 11 is dog.
You are soo right, TomTom. I very much agree on your theories there, and the characteristics on the larger sizes, if not on the usability of the kite, still. Yes, i've had many a hard day with the unstable canopy of the Peaks, but you'll learn to whip them back into shape quickly with experience, and to avoid it in the first place. I've had many of them in my possession (v1 6m /v2 4-6-9-12m /v3 9-12m), but haven't flown my new v4's yet, sad story.

Needless to say, they are not high performance kites, and the larger sizes are slow-turning bedsheets and has of course slightly different character than the smaller ones, but then again you'll fly different sizes in different winds. Also for me, it is just the trait of physics when the wingtips has to travel much further to turn the kite. Other characteristics follow, not all of them obvious (not to me, at least). It can also be noticed that they have the same construction for all sizes, maybe they should have scaled some features differently to make them fly better in the larger sizes. The range in sqm is 3x from 4 to 12 (v2&v3) and almost 4x from 3 to 11,5 (v4) - possibly more R&D should have gone into adapting the Peak to different wind ranges.

I have also had the experience of a flying-in period for most of my Peaks from new to 10+ uses. And they should be looked after in the bridles and mixers departments, they might need tuning. Both of these might be crucial to get the best out of the Peak kites.

*Edit; sorry for all the goddamn little edits


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