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Flysurfer Peak 4

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bricedenice
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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby bricedenice » Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:45 am

tomtom wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 6:05 pm
you all miss dynamic changing place where kite pull you. This give you additional freedom = stoke. I dont tried it with peaks but i tried it with other kites in past.
About peak drift vs AOA. I never noticed that changing AOA change peak drift radicaly.
There is no AOA on Peak which make him sit too forward in WW that was what i mean. And i dont know if you noticed this too but drifting peaks newer flap.
Technicaly in real drift situation you are not even suppose to be able to change AOA.
Not questioning the stoke, should be great!

Regarding drifting peaks never flap, well maybe your wind/swell direction and lines drawn are such that you never needed it then. But peaks (and clouds) have this impressive feature, let them flap as needed and be able to go DTL much more aggressively.

When you set your kite's initial angle of incidence and start going DTL it's still not a "technically real" drift situation yet, it can then become afterwards depending on how deep you go, but in the real world (and a kite that is hard to water-relauch in flat water, let alone waves) I would say a theoretical 100% drifting situation (no residual line tension whatsoever) is not something to be actively pursued very often.

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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby bricedenice » Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:49 am

Horst Sergio wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 6:36 pm
Thanks Tom,

I see it all like you.
And to me, being hooked, even with a very long depower line and or locking bar on line has nearly nothing to do with unhooked.
And due to dynamic wind window also a unhooked Peak can flap if you change angle of attack during moving it inside and boarder of wind window or as permanently move yourself on a wave against the kite.

It is not the goal to have a heavily flapping overpowered, depowered kite in your hand while riding the wave, but the opposite:
On the wave with the foil you want a well balanced kite with just enough power to start you with 1-2 loops (which is when underpowered easier unhooked) and then a kite that behaves as neutral as possible when you fly it on one streched arm mostly above your head. Like this you wont be able to forget the peak completely but you wont feel no more pull. You will just have to controll that the lines don't start to go to much slack to not risk to sink it, that's why it is for sure not a recommendation to everyone to try.

And yes before you hook of you depower with the trimmer, but if never done before it is not a Peak in the water to try it first time. :wink:

P.S.
Thinking about it, it could also be worth a try to not just hook the suicide leash the normal way, but above the bar (or even with a short backstallsafety /two extra lines on level of trimmers ...) which could increase the chance if releasing the bar and crashing the kite to be able to relaunch, as then backlines should stay permanently powered / tensioned as much as before or possible, which is very important for Peak relaunches ..... will try this next time. :D ... have to go add those lines :D
I have no experience unhooking in waves, am just trying to make sense of what could be, for the peak, a "con" of the pros. If you could post a video in the future would be great, also to get a glimpse of the conditions and level of drift required.

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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby merl » Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:57 pm

A mini review after four or five proper sessions on the peak 4 5m. I'm riding a 633 clone on a strapless pocket board. I'm just riding around with lots of turns but no fancy moves. I am a bit heavier than most of the earlier posters - in the 90-95kg range.

Flying technique - the main new technique to learn (for me) is the big smooth loop to try to get some power out of the kite at the lighter end. I found that the peak is sensitive to oversheeting and can stall. This can happen when looping like crazy to try to get some power, and translates to a kite which suddenly pinwheels with no power instead of looping in a larger arc. I have lengthened the distance from connection to quick release to make it harder to oversheet since I am not at the level where I find the backstall useful for riding.

Gound handling - the light weight is great, as is the quick setup. I find it best to wind the lines all the way to the folded kite, including as much of the bridle as possible. This way, when you unwind, the lines seem to come out without any bridle tangle so you can launch very quickly. Maybe this is the same on all smaller bridled kites, but it felt different from large foils that I am more used to. The kite can flap around a lot on the beach but I find it simplest just to weight one tip then it seems you can launch the kite from almost anywhere in the 90 degrees between completely upwind and across the wind.

Range - I think the earlier comments that it is roughly like an 8m LEI in foiling power seem about right. I could just about ride down to about 12-13knots but water starting in that wind is quite challenging with my experience level. Comfortable upper end is maybe 18 for me. I was out in a bit more yesterday and something odd happened a couple of times: the upper wingtip collapsed and stayed folded-in until I drove the kite back in the opposite direction. This was probably in around 18-20 knots so I was sheeting out quite a lot.

Relaunch (2/2) - managed to fly the kite into the water a couple of times in fact, but it was shallow (chest deep) and relaunch was easy and quick. I'm not counting on this but in some situations it clearly relaunches fine.

Fun - I like the light bar pressure that makes it easy to sine the kite with one hand. It is also nice not to have to think about the kite when flying towards it. This makes downwind turns a lot of fun. but I wonder if it also lets you get sloppy with your technique too... Overall I am enjoying the kite a lot, and look forward to some bigger swell to play with.
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Horst Sergio (Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:34 pm) • mgs (Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:00 pm)
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Peak 4 tip collapse and heavy rider

Postby Horst Sergio » Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:33 pm

Hi merl,
thanks for your review for heavier riders. It is also my impression that under higher load conditions + depower Peak 4 can come to its limit. Collapses aren't as drastic as on other foils but annoying for sure.

What is possible to do about is:
- Change kites range of use towards lower powered conditions by using bigger wings or even a big wing monofoil. My wave setup with 63 kg is 1000 cm² monofoil, so very low resistance and so also very low load and level of range. In waves I am just riding the 3 m² as the 5 m² when having a bit of wind wave is allready to big for my low weight and resistance.
- optimizing bridle: You may try to exchange 8x of the actuall pink 1 cm long bridle to canopy connectors with a similar small line (best same material, via your FS shop) and build yourself 8 new connector lines with for the 5 m about 1 cm more length exchanging on both side the outer 4x "a1x" connectors
https://flysurfer.com/files/dlm_uploads ... LP-5-1.pdf
to get a bit more AoA on the tips when depowered. Haven't tried that yet myself with the Peaks, but it is a common way for especially older getting foil kites which start to have tip collapsing issues due to shrinking of outer lower loaded a-level lines, which you will compensate this way.

About powerful loops: just shorten front lines at the trimmer as far that you just don't get backstalls anymore in the loops, I prefer a bit more powered setting, but then you have to feel that point, which is due to the low bar forces not so easy.

And at 18 knts and above, now I would expect you should be perfectly in the lower range of your new 4,5 m² Wave for what you do, interested to hear how you like it here. :)

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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby mgs » Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:00 pm

@merl – Nice review.
I’m a bit late in joining the FS Peak 4 thread/debate but I saw a Peak 4 at my local beach for the first time yesterday and was really impressed.I was going to have a closer look at the peak and have a chat with the owner, but didn’t manage it.
I’m of a similar weight right now and kitesurf in shallow flat water with small waves on a Skimboard.
Would be interested to hear what they have to offer as compared to “closed cell foils”

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Horst Sergio

Postby Horst Sergio » Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:18 pm

@mgs:
Don't want to anticipate the answer from merl, but in the combination > 90 kg + no foil / Skimboard, I would have a doupts that you will be happy with the usable windrange.

So my recomendation would be try it before you order it. ... Or even better try to go towards foiling and when you are really safe doing it (easy flying jibes without dropping kite) then go for a Peak.

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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby tomtom » Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:44 pm

Peaks are primary hydrofoilfoil kites, It works surprisingly well for my wife and kid on very efficient TT. But they are both in 50 kg region and that explain it. They enjoy Peaks positives without dealing with negatives. BTW it is perfect wifes kids kite. Most safe and very beginner friendly. I was able to make them independent kitesurfers - no problem with upwind, kite dropping etc. in about week. Not possible with any other kite. But thats different story for different thread

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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby tomtom » Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:54 pm

In other words - if you can consistently point much higher upwind than best normal TT /about 20% higher/ than you can use Peaks :)
This mean - you must use something in like very efficient surfboard with big fins or something like flydoors race or be very light or both.
Or you must use Hydrofoil :)

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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby merl » Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:15 pm

mgs wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:00 pm
I’m of a similar weight right now and kitesurf in shallow flat water with small waves on a Skimboard.
Would be interested to hear what they have to offer as compared to “closed cell foils”
Im sorry I can't try it out - I snapped my skimboard a few months ago trying to foil with it. The real question is whether the upwind ability of the skimboard (which is pretty good) compensates for the inefficiency the kite. Without trying it I couldn't say.

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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby PrfctChaos » Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:06 pm

I (78 kg) foil and skimboard with my peaks mate. Don't have any problem upwinding, go upwind just as well as others with surfboards and surf kites. And the peaks are excellent in the waves.

But wouldn't neccesarily recommend them to anyone thats not going to hydrofoil on them. Its more a case of them being excellent with a hydrofoil, and can also be used adequately on other board as well. (The advantages are not that apparent on skimboard only)

Can use the 5m and skimboard from about 18 knots, 20 is ideal. 12 knots on the foil, ideal.


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