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Flysurfer Peak 4

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omg
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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby omg » Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:24 pm

@ Tom, For me, in light winds the relaunch is not an issue if the kite stays well in the air. I don't drop it.

@ Horst, what do you mean with "glide ratio", please?

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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby tomtom » Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:49 pm

In very l layman terms :) every wing has lift to drag ratio from which more or less depend glide ratio. It is how far can wing glide from certain altitude. This has meaning for sailplanes and paragliding. In kiting you feel this L/D ratio as forward pull to side pull ratio. How much and how easy you can go upwind and also how fast. This is much more important in low wind where you travel faster than wind. Therefore you need kite with good l/D ratio for lw when you want to travel at speed much higher than wind. /which you definately want when wind speed is 4 knts/. This is much less important at higher wind speed because your speed / wind speed ratio is much lower. So here you can use kite which is L/D compromised but has more stability and other advantages. You ca use peak 11 as lw kite but you will go much slower than on race kite. How much slower is question.

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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby tomtom » Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:51 pm

Sorry I answer question for Horst :)

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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby Horst Sergio » Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:13 pm

tomtom wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:51 pm
Sorry I answer question for Horst :)
Especially when answering questions more precise than I could, as you did, you are very welcome to do so. :thumb:
Low AR or L/D ratio kites come to a limit in the low end, even when you compensate the worse upwind a bit by a big board or foil wing with lower speeds, but this means the kite also collects less and less apperent wind, which is one of the magic of high performance light wind foiling. So you have to compensate again with more canopy, more drag, worse upwind … Real light wind will always be just for high AR high L/D ratio equipment with the problem it is more expensive and harder to handle.
The benefit of a single skin is that it is so much more accesable in all meanings.

Hope to test the 3 and 5 m again tomorrow and to make a better how to video. :)

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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby Horst Sergio » Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:18 pm

As promised www.kitejunkie.com has tested again the Peak4 now in 3 and 5 m² in the water.

And just in one point I was wrong: Now after minimum 70 droptests (this time also often complet out of control, guy under water, lines slack):

Relaunchability has gone down from 100 % to just 98,5 % :wink:

But the one and only time it went wrong, was the chance to try rigging it in the deep water, which I wanted to learn anyway and it worked in the 1,5th try :thumb:
Which means, even if you can't relaunch it dirctly, it will always possible to wind up, correct the canopy into relaunchable position and start again, exactly as I do it with my sonics, where the quote might be similar.

Video will follow.
Attachments
Kitejunkie-Peak4-relaunch-during-Foilflight.jpg
Kitejunkie-Peak4-first-waterstart.jpg
Kitejunkie-Peak4-5m-on-water.jpg
Kitejunkie-Peak4-3m-on-water.jpg

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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby tomtom » Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:36 pm

looking forward for videos and tips!!! My peaks are on way here.
Also HF windrange for 5 and 3 - just comparison with known closed cell is ok :)

It looks quite cold :)

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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby Horst Sergio » Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:35 pm

Hi Tom,
I think your choice of 5,4 and 3,0 m² (as I understood they are in real) is pretty good. I (63 kg) was out with both in always inbetween 13 - 22 knts as seen in the screenshot below. While the 3 m² was sometimes a bit low, the 5 was sometimes a bit high powered, but both never close to their limit. So overlap and switching inbetween was easy, by use of the safety anyway. So actually no more sure, if I would want or need an 8 m².
Unfortunately not yet tested in 8 knts, but would expect this to be the lower compfortable limit for the 5 to aswell ride on big foils and waterstart easily. With the high winds on one side relaunch is easy due to higher forces pulling up the kite with water inside, on the other hand, reaction time needed is much faster, why I am sure it will be possible also in 8 maybe 7 knts, will take longer, but time to be more precise in handling with less errors. Today the kites several times just flipped up by themself, while I was still under water. In the picture with the 5 m² in the next secound I was just stearing it up again without stopping the ride. :D
Upwind angle was about 50° to the wind, which was at least still a bit better than the other guy had with his tube … Always wonder why people use those stuff, as also relaunch seems to be a bigger problem with those things. The other day of the first relaunch test, a tube kiter was swimming in right before I started the 30 relaunches. :D
But to also name a disadvantage: Jumping steel feels like crap with single skins.
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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby windrider1 » Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:59 pm

So where is the video of these 98 percent releaunches . Strange you have presented only photos and words so far. I tested the 8m in about 8 knts and had a zero relaunch rate with about 6 or 7 dips. May be the wind was too low considering 8 kts is not enough to kitesurf but I can tell u for sure water gets in to the leading edge pocket especially the tips and makes the kite heavy and difficult to come off the water. well ill wait for your footage may be the smaller sizes its possible in stronger winds.


Horst Sergio wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:18 pm
As promised www.kitejunkie.com has tested again the Peak4 now in 3 and 5 m² in the water.

And just in one point I was wrong: Now after minimum 70 droptests (this time also often complet out of control, guy under water, lines slack):

Relaunchability has gone down from 100 % to just 98,5 % :wink:

But the one and only time it went wrong, was the chance to try rigging it in the deep water, which I wanted to learn anyway and it worked in the 1,5th try :thumb:
Which means, even if you can't relaunch it dirctly, it will always possible to wind up, correct the canopy into relaunchable position and start again, exactly as I do it with my sonics, where the quote might be similar.

Video will follow.
Last edited by windrider1 on Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby Regis-de-giens » Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:09 pm

Hi Sergio,
Very interesing work, thank you. SS have good grunt power , but would you say that , for a given size, it compensate its lower LD ratio compared to medium ratio like the soul ? I know the conclusion will be "wind speed dependant" (Since apparent wind will "cost" more in extreme light wind) but how do you compare the ultimate low end of a Soul, Wave or peak (talking about staying upwind on a large Hydrofoil) in a size that you have actually tested (6 or 8m ? ) ;
In my old memory of peak v1 9m, loop was not more powerfull than a powerfull twin skin, but that souvenir is quite old in my mind.

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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby Horst Sergio » Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:01 am

windrider1 wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:59 pm
Quote windrider:
"So where is the video of these 98 percent releaunches . Strange you have presented only photos and words so far. I tested the 8m in about 8 knts and had a zero relaunch rate with about 6 or 7 dips. May be the wind was too low considering 8 kts is not enough to kitesurf but I can tell u for sure water gets in to the leading edge pocket especially the tips and makes the kite heavy and difficult to come off the water. well ill wait for your footage may be the smaller sizes its possible in stronger winds."
Hi,
first, sorry to be pedantic at this point (I am German) but it's 98,5 %.
As already seen, I am just expert for fuzzy photos and big words, not for videos, that's why, this work has been outsorced to a less unprofessional video cutter. In order to fullfill your quality demands. But unfortunately, as you can imagine, it will take quite some time to turn all those fuzzy grey video material into nice blue sky, shiny ones :) , even more it will be a lot of work for our post-processing to cut out all those little helpers and their boats (who in reality helped to relaunch the kite) out of the video and doing this about 70 times! So poletely we want to ask you to wait a few days. Would this be ok for you, yes? :remybussi:

Oh and as you already know for sure, if something doesn't work with a kite it is ALWAYS about kite size or wind strength ... always, never about skill or its absence, no no, never seen that. :bye:

@Regis:
Yes as you said, depending, but I think in the lowest lowend with the L/D ratio of Peak you just will hit an unbreakable wall somewhere at 5-6 knts it just won't matter anymore if you take 8, 11 or 20 m² Peak, you just will not go upwind anymore, not with a normal board at 20-25 km/h, well with a 100 cm wing riding 10 km/h, but who wants that, for me my 70 cm wing is already the limit of slowness. So think you will need at least a mid AR as your Pulsion which similar as the lecca-lecca I tried can be a nice compromise between lightness accesability and performance. Myself prefer close to maximum of performance and "speed" (30 km/h) in the lowest lowend, knowing that with one mistake, I am close to fall and swim. Especially if you want to jump, performace in lowend is the only way. But Peak is a very nice freaking concept for reduced cost, packing, travelling and so on, why I like it too, and who knows maybe one day I also will use it in those mountains all around my home place for snowkiting uphill … but this is really a freaky idea, not :wink:


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