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Flysurfer, bring back the Psycho 4

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Skywalker7
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Re: Flysurfer, bring back the Psycho 4

Postby Skywalker7 » Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:40 pm

I have a Psycho4 10 M DLX and also have a Soul 10M. I was running an experiment and trying pretty hard to make a "Soul" out of my Psycho 4 by changing AOA of the tips and closing the valves but so far there is not much improvement. If anybody has a secret set up which makes the Psycho 4 into a Soul then I would like to know. The Soul ca. has 4 times the internal air pressure compared to the psycho 4 therefore the Soul could be much more stable. The Soul is just way more stable while giving so much more performance in the same time. I was flying also quite some foil kite and the Soul is by far the best kite for the general freeriders and since it has probably the biggest useable windrange this might be the best kite for very advanced kiters too for twintip riding. The Soul is overperforming the Speed 4's by far and I think the Speed 5s as well. I wish to see some Speed 6/Sonic3 kite with some 6.4 AR and good stability.

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Re: Flysurfer, bring back the Psycho 4

Postby foilholio » Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:11 pm

It was my belief that the air pressure in foils runs a fraction above air pressure. Do you mean the soul has double this fraction than the Pyscho has?

You can only increase pressure by sealing the kite more or positioning inlets better. The simplest mods to improve Pyscho4 are FLS, remove zip, remove over pressure valves, remove WAC( if not used). The bridles could probably be altered a bit, for example maybe flattening Z.

Skywalker7
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Re: Flysurfer, bring back the Psycho 4

Postby Skywalker7 » Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:55 am

foilholio wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:11 pm
It was my belief that the air pressure in foils runs a fraction above air pressure. Do you mean the soul has double this fraction than the Pyscho has?

You can only increase pressure by sealing the kite more or positioning inlets better. The simplest mods to improve Pyscho4 are FLS, remove zip, remove over pressure valves, remove WAC( if not used). The bridles could probably be altered a bit, for example maybe flattening Z.

Do you mean to remove the FLS line as well? I did the remove the over pressure valves, and add some AOA of the wingtips.

I think the difference is more than double. Obviously I don't mean that there is 2 bar of pressure in the kite but the difference can be more than double. Per my knowledge the earlier kites Psycho 4 and Speed 3's had a design that when you started to depower the kite the angle of the intake valves changed a bit and the internal pressure of the kite started to decrease in order the leading edge starts deforming and this made a the kite to stop overflying through the wind window. This was an intentional decreasing of the internal pressure of the Speed 3s and Psycho 4s. Now what I feel with the Soul that the internal pressure is always on the maximum and the designers found a different way of making the kite stable(doesn't overfly) so the kite is able to fly with the max possible internal pressure. The 10M Soul in 20-25 knots is so "pumped" that actually when it should collapse with totaly loose lines it drifts back and up in one piece just as LEI kite untill the bar lines gets straight. I dont know what is the pressure inside, but certainly if there is some 20-25 knots and plus some apparent wind, than it is certainly able to build some nice pressure in the kite.

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Re: Flysurfer, bring back the Psycho 4

Postby kitexpert » Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:14 pm

Only possibility for Soul to have higher pressure than earlier kites is if it is able to store max pressure which is reached during fastest part of the flight. Air intakes, valves and locations have not changed.

Ram air pressure is very low. For kite flying speeds it is about 0.05 PSI at max. But because kites have a lot of area total force acting on surface is significant.

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Re: Flysurfer, bring back the Psycho 4

Postby foilholio » Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:26 am

Skywalker7 wrote:Do you mean to remove the FLS line as well?
No the Psycho4 has a fifth line/FDS, change that to FLS and remove the fifth line and bridles.
Skywalker7 wrote: Per my knowledge the earlier kites Psycho 4 and Speed 3's had a design that when you started to depower the kite the angle of the intake valves changed a bit and the internal pressure of the kite started to decrease in order the leading edge starts deforming and this made a the kite to stop overflying through the wind window.
Yep, I think the pulse2 started with this. The pyscho 4 has a valve in the middle that if you open the velcro inside increases the pressure.
Skywalker7 wrote: . Now what I feel with the Soul that the internal pressure is always on the maximum and the designers found a different way of making the kite stable(doesn't overfly) so the kite is able to fly with the max possible internal pressure.
If it holds pressure well it will be more stable, other wise they would have just used a thicker airfoil or more reflex.
Skywalker7 wrote: The 10M Soul in 20-25 knots is so "pumped" that actually when it should collapse with totaly loose lines it drifts back and up in one piece just as LEI kite untill the bar lines gets straight.
Basically all foils drift back near perfectly at 12. If the soul can drift in the side of the window with full slack lines like some inflatables then that is impressive.
kitexpert wrote: Only possibility for Soul to have higher pressure than earlier kites is if it is able to store max pressure which is reached during fastest part of the flight. Air intakes, valves and locations have not changed.
Not the only. The air pressure is a function air forced in minus air lost out plus a factor of distribution loses. I can certainly see them improving them all. It is possible the air intake positions have moved only slightly or their sizes have changed, or the airfoil has changed.

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Re: Flysurfer, bring back the Psycho 4

Postby kitexpert » Sat Mar 02, 2019 3:09 pm

foilholio wrote: I can certainly see them improving them all. It is possible the air intake positions have moved only slightly or their sizes have changed, or the airfoil has changed.
Apparently Soul is more airtight. Some fine adjustments have been made but nothing that essential. Doubling inside air pressure is pure fantasy.
foilholio wrote:Yep, I think the pulse2 started with this.
Perhaps so. In fact there was known deformations in LE because when depowered stagnation point moved above air intakes and inflation was compromised. FS explained this flaw "helping stability at low AoA" or smth BS and many believed it :) (For sure it helped stability, like adding 1kg sand to TE of the kite - no overflying any more :lol: ) Now foil kites have LE stiffeners and doubled air intakes or variably located air intakes to keep LE as clean as possible all the time - no one wants or needs such flaws "for stability" any more.

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Re: Flysurfer, bring back the Psycho 4

Postby foilholio » Sun Mar 03, 2019 3:07 pm

I think the main effect of dimpled LE is to slow flight particularly through the window, effect is more direct depower. Overall though negatives are not really the best. Guess it can be added to list of FS jetflaps and FS overpressure valves as somewhat failed tech. FS has some interesting ideas but I think it still takes a while to fully weigh the benefit vs negative of some things. One reason I go a bit slower with my A15 mods.

Oh and being pedantic, sand in the TE can destabilize a kite horribly.

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Re: Flysurfer, bring back the Psycho 4

Postby kitexpert » Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:40 pm

Added weight to kite decreases L/D ratio and makes it slower and to sit deeper in the WW. It is silly way to increase stability like it is silly to distort LE with bad inflation. I remember very well how annoying it was when it took some time to reinflate kite when powered up, this was just that foil kite inferiority which everyone hates.

Funny though that this property got even "better" when Speeds aged. Dimples in LE became really deep and air was pumping in and out when powered/depowered - kite had become a slow dog :roll:

I don't think any kite has had so much sand in TE it would cause real problems, but of course it doesn't look good if seam is filled with sand. Reasons for instability are somewhere else.

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Re: Flysurfer, bring back the Psycho 4

Postby grigorib » Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:37 pm

Wasn't the Speed4 STD/DLX (that came prior to Lotus) in 8/10m sizes only a logical continuation of Psycho line?

Mine (10m STD) rides well, I love simplified A/B/Z bridles, battens on the LE, no jetflaps, velcro deflate and horizontal string at the front of the LE.

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Re: Flysurfer, bring back the Psycho 4

Postby jakemoore » Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:49 pm

grigorib wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:37 pm
horizontal string at the front of the LE.
?!

I dont recall what this horizontal string part is?

I do think the LE battens and return of the velcro bytthole were a big step forward.


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