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help with a tangle!

Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:40 pm
by neilhapgood
Hi all,

I have the most almighty tangle in a flysurfer soul, see picture attached.

The lines are still attached (I have a foot long piece of tubing with 4 short lines attached to that I put the lines onto when I disconnect the bar) so they are on there, all was going as usual and then when I went to bring the downwind tip to the upwind tip a gust of wind caught it when I looked up the lines were in a birds nest. I didn't have time to look at it then so rolled it up, i just spent an hour on it and got no where.

I haven't disconnected the lines and have tried to loosen it all up as much as possible to look for loops but can't find any loops, its just one big mess, I don't know where to start.

Can you reach a point where is just isn't fixable?

Thanks!

Re: help with a tangle!

Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:53 pm
by FLandOBX
No, it's always fixable. We can't see your photo (didn't upload, perhaps?), but it sounds from your description as if you've disconnected the bar and attached the lines to a pseudo-bar/tube? Is it possible that the tube dropped through the bridle lines, or the kite slipped through the bridle lines in the gusty wind?

Keep your lines attached to the tube (or bar). Disconnecting the lines will usually make matters worse. Keep working at it and good luck.

Re: help with a tangle!

Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:16 pm
by mr-markus
Got me a huge tangle twice also. Just disconnected the A attachments at the kite. Put it aside and worked B,C,all the way down to the Z line. Then started with Z and worked back to A. It aint difficult but consumes time. A lineplan is on the FS website. Got me a huge tip from the kite dealer: you start with the shortest lines from the tip and end with the longest at the center. The bridle lines itself split up also in 1 line shorter then the other. If you look closely to the lines you'll see the whole picture. Take youre time and pictures before start. Hope this helps. Cheers

Re: help with a tangle!

Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:22 pm
by mgs
I have experienced a "mega" tangle and had to remove the speed system in order to resolve the issue. Lines were not attached in this instance.
Tangles have the potential to go “exponentially” worse if you make a couple of wrong decisions.
Dealing with it as much as you can at the beach first before packing it away does help, I speak from experience.
Good luck.

Re: help with a tangle!

Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:40 pm
by JakeFarley
FLandOBX wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:53 pm
No, it's always fixable. We can't see your photo (didn't upload, perhaps?), but it sounds from your description as if you've disconnected the bar and attached the lines to a pseudo-bar/tube? Is it possible that the tube dropped through the bridle lines, or the kite slipped through the bridle lines in the gusty wind?

Keep your lines attached to the tube (or bar). Disconnecting the lines will usually make matters worse. Keep working at it and good luck.
To add to FLandOBX, after you have rolled up the flying lines secure the lines on the bar with a couple of half-hitches and use the bungees on the bar ends to make sure the lines do not slide off the bar. Also, do not put the bar in the kite with the bridle lines when your roll the kite up. Keep it outside the kite until the kite is completely rolled up and preferably keep it in a bar bag.

Re: help with a tangle!

Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:17 pm
by TomW
I got mega tangled on a Hyperlink. I made mistake of taking lines off the bar.
I laid it out and detached Z. Got it clear. Then had to disassemble the whole speed system and untangled first A then C, B was then clear. Reattached speed system. Then laid out side that was clear and did the other side.
Took 90min on grass in Brazil sweating in heat...it was education...

Re: help with a tangle!

Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:55 pm
by foilholio
For a tangle disconnecting anything is a grave mistake.

Follow your lines into the mess to get them out. Your lines are the reference of what needs to come out next. You are basically following them as the untangled part to find the next part.

You can wrap your bar up and pass bridle wraps around it instead of the kite. Look for the first bridle wrap open it up and pass the bar through it.

Never pull anything tight to form knots. If you have knots or anything tight you need to loosen it. Pull at it so it opens up not tightens up!

Untangling things without disconnecting anything is new and you will need to learn it. It is a step by step process of following the untangled bit to the next tangle and the next and handling them one by one. When you get better you may actually be be able to handle a heap of tangles at once. Without things connected you have no reference to what is untangled, and you will cross things over into real knots and what could have taken seconds or minutes will take hours!

Re: help with a tangle!

Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 2:07 am
by jakemoore
I disconnect lines. Not just to untangle but also just to roll up the kite and put it away. I have 3 bars with different lines I share between kites. Appearantly this goes against the foil kite code. But I dont have big problems with untangling so it works for me.

Tangles are easy but take time. Im a fan of getting out of the wind. Foilholios advice not to pull knots tight is the best advice.

If the lines are tangles in the mess I would detach the lines. Pull the lines out one at a time by following one end the entire length and get that whole line out of the mess. The first one will lake a while. The second half as much. The third even less because there are fewer loops and mess.

Once the lines are out you have just the kite and bridle. Separate the left and right bridle. Just start at the kite and follow one sides bunches of bridles to the flying line attachment. They will come separate as a group. Then work the A bridles from the kite to the line attachment. Finally work the Z bridles from the kite to the line attachment. Just doing the A and Z automatically untangles B and C.

The lines are a 20 minute job. The kite separate from the lines a 10 minute job. Just work one problem at a time. Right steering line. Left steering line. One front line then the other. Right frm left bridle. A bridle. Z bridle. Done.

Re: help with a tangle!

Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:53 pm
by elguapo
jakemoore wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 2:07 am
I disconnect lines. Not just to untangle but also just to roll up the kite and put it away. I have 3 bars with different lines I share between kites. Appearantly this goes against the foil kite code. But I dont have big problems with untangling so it works for me.

Tangles are easy but take time. Im a fan of getting out of the wind. Foilholios advice not to pull knots tight is the best advice.

If the lines are tangles in the mess I would detach the lines. Pull the lines out one at a time by following one end the entire length and get that whole line out of the mess. The first one will lake a while. The second half as much. The third even less because there are fewer loops and mess.

Once the lines are out you have just the kite and bridle. Separate the left and right bridle. Just start at the kite and follow one sides bunches of bridles to the flying line attachment. They will come separate as a group. Then work the A bridles from the kite to the line attachment. Finally work the Z bridles from the kite to the line attachment. Just doing the A and Z automatically untangles B and C.

The lines are a 20 minute job. The kite separate from the lines a 10 minute job. Just work one problem at a time. Right steering line. Left steering line. One front line then the other. Right frm left bridle. A bridle. Z bridle. Done.
same,
i usually disconnect.
for tangles...just make sure there are no lines are going around the back.
then separate the 2 sides...may need to isolate the steering and front lines..unwind as much as possible.
then your do your A, B, C, Z lines as normal...

Re: help with a tangle!

Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:12 pm
by foilholio
I want to say you are both idiots. Honestly Jakemoore I am surprised with you disconnecting things, I thought you were a foil veteran? 30 minutes untangling is just silly and what disconnecting things gets you if you are lucky, unlucky is hours. Inflatos are the same, you can get a true nightmare if you disconnect those lines.