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Help with new kites

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BigSky
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Re: Help with new kites

Postby BigSky » Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:33 pm

Wow, so you bring it to the window and then backstall it. I wondered at what point backstalling is dangerous. A 15m in 15kts might be challenging (is it?) but is a 6m in 15kts? All the videos say to only do it light winds which seems a little nutty. I have no one to discuss it with at the beach so it's super intimidating

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Re: Help with new kites

Postby Kristan » Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:15 am

You gotta be really careful backstalling Soul in winds over 10 knots. I had hard time keeping it still after backstall, because it rather pulled like mad, jumped up and down, or trailing edge inverting and kite lifting up because of it.

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Re: Help with new kites

Postby Adventure Logs » Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:35 pm

Kristan wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:15 am
You gotta be really careful backstalling Soul in winds over 10 knots. I had hard time keeping it still after backstall, because it rather pulled like mad, jumped up and down, or trailing edge inverting and kite lifting up because of it.
Pulling too much backlines if it’s doing this. The Soul is super easy to land this way, just takes some finesse.

90% of the time I solo land. I ALWAYS land and launch my foils trimmed for full power. On launching, this helps fill the kite faster with more control. Once the kite is close to fully inflated, then I depower as needed. For landings, trimming for full power makes is much easier to backstall the kite. If the wind is light, I’ll backstall it straight down, adjusting the steering line tension to advoid any hard landings. Usually with the kite trimmed at full power, I just bring the steering lines together in the center and that’s enough, really don’t need much. You have a much bigger buffer on how much is needed compared to higher aspect foils.

If the kite keeps bouncing around = need to pull more steering lines.

If the trailing edge folds up which can lead to having the kite relaunch on its own = release some of the tension on the steering lines.

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Re: Help with new kites

Postby neilhapgood » Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:29 pm

top tip on letting depower off there adventurelogs, I was getting dragged along the beach back stalling my 12m soul yesterday which has never happened before but that must have been why, its the first time I have ever had full depower on when riding and didn't take it off to land.

I find keeping it on the beach when walking up the lines easier if you walk up all four lines, if I just walk up steering lines then it does flap about, anyone else walk up all four lines or is that not a good idea?

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Re: Help with new kites

Postby neilhapgood » Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:32 pm

sorry another question, I just reread adventurelogs last post and saw he said he only lands it straight down if the wind is light. If you are overpowered what do you do, can you bring it to the side touching the beach and then just pull on the higher steering line to backstall it?

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Re: Help with new kites

Postby Kristan » Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:11 pm

Adventure Logs wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:35 pm

Pulling too much backlines if it’s doing this. The Soul is super easy to land this way, just takes some finesse.

90% of the time I solo land. I ALWAYS land and launch my foils trimmed for full power. On launching, this helps fill the kite faster with more control. Once the kite is close to fully inflated, then I depower as needed. For landings, trimming for full power makes is much easier to backstall the kite. If the wind is light, I’ll backstall it straight down, adjusting the steering line tension to advoid any hard landings. Usually with the kite trimmed at full power, I just bring the steering lines together in the center and that’s enough, really don’t need much. You have a much bigger buffer on how much is needed compared to higher aspect foils.

If the kite keeps bouncing around = need to pull more steering lines.

If the trailing edge folds up which can lead to having the kite relaunch on its own = release some of the tension on the steering lines.
The problem with Soul that it's very narrow golden ratio whether you pull steering lines too hard or not enough. Even getting withing that range is not permanent, because as soon as Soul lands on the trailing edge it loses air pressure really fast. And by that the kite loses its shape, trailing edge becomes softer, getting picked up by the wind and kite lifts up inverted. So time is very limited in order to unhook and run by the lines.

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Re: Help with new kites

Postby Adventure Logs » Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:39 pm

Kristan wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:11 pm
The problem with Soul that it's very narrow golden ratio whether you pull steering lines too hard or not enough. Even getting withing that range is not permanent, because as soon as Soul lands on the trailing edge it loses air pressure really fast. And by that the kite loses its shape, trailing edge becomes softer, getting picked up by the wind and kite lifts up inverted. So time is very limited in order to unhook and run by the lines.
Again this is VERY incorrect. The Soul's design lets it sit on it's ass much better than any other foil I've flown(Chronos, Sonics, Speeds.) No offense here but it's pretty clear from your previous posts that you still are very inexperienced with foils and I request for you to get a little bit more knowledge and skill under your belt before you make claims which just aren't true. The Soul's "Golden ratio" is huge compared to say a Sonic 2.
neilhapgood wrote: top tip on letting depower off there adventurelogs, I was getting dragged along the beach back stalling my 12m soul yesterday which has never happened before but that must have been why, its the first time I have ever had full depower on when riding and didn't take it off to land.

I find keeping it on the beach when walking up the lines easier if you walk up all four lines, if I just walk up steering lines then it does flap about, anyone else walk up all four lines or is that not a good idea?
Thank you, I have been hoping to make a good detailed video on different landing methods but I ended up losing my GoPro a couple weeks ago filming my Soul 6m review so everything has been pushed back. Sorry about the confusion but I also walk up the lines holding all 4. If the wind is really strong, I make careful note of where the 4 lines are positioned so if the kite pull is too strong, I can easily release one side which allows the kite to flag out. The kite will most of it's power even if you still hold on two a front line as well as a steering line. The kite may start to spin though, laying the lines flat on the beach will help prevent this. Be sure to NEVER wrap the lines around your hands as you walk up them, that's extremely dangerous.
neilhapgood wrote: sorry another question, I just reread adventurelogs last post and saw he said he only lands it straight down if the wind is light. If you are overpowered what do you do, can you bring it to the side touching the beach and then just pull on the higher steering line to backstall it?
In stronger winds up to a certain point, I bring the kite to the edge of the wind window, and then using all 4 lines, backstall the kite. As the kite begins to backstall it will also start to fall back into the powerzone. To prevent the kite from sliding on it's ass which can cause wear and tear or get caught on something and complicate the landing, at the same time the kite is falling back, I quickly position myself directly upwind of the kite. Once the kite is stable enough, I slowly walk up all 4 lines, keeping good care on separating left front/back lines from right side.

In extreme overpowered times like when I'm on a boosting session with my Soul 15m above 20kts, I'll just pull the safety. But I still do it similar to the previous landing. Pull the safety at the wind window, move quickly upwind, etc. This reduces the shock on the bridle, and helps reduce kite spinning.

I'll try to make an effort to put something quickly out by next week even if i need to use an Iphone. I'm in Thailand currently so the wind isn't the strongest right now but I'll see what I can do.

=Jason-

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Re: Help with new kites

Postby Kristan » Wed Apr 10, 2019 5:47 am

Adventure Logs wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:39 pm

Again this is VERY incorrect. The Soul's design lets it sit on it's ass much better than any other foil I've flown(Chronos, Sonics, Speeds.) No offense here but it's pretty clear from your previous posts that you still are very inexperienced with foils and I request for you to get a little bit more knowledge and skill under your belt before you make claims which just aren't true. The Soul's "Golden ratio" is huge compared to say a Sonic 2.
It's not my only experience. There were plenty of reports of Soul not behaving that well after backstall. I've seen those reports even before I bought the Soul. Reports from different people with probably more experience than mine. And they say that Speed actually behaves much better.

So your aggressive and bashing tone only speaks of extreme level of bias and might not represent actual kite behavior.

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Re: Help with new kites

Postby Adventure Logs » Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:04 am

Kristan wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 5:47 am
It's not my only experience. There were plenty of reports of Soul not behaving that well after backstall. I've seen those reports even before I bought the Soul. Reports from different people with probably more experience than mine. And they say that Speed actually behaves much better.

So your aggressive and bashing tone only speaks of extreme level of bias and might not represent actual kite behavior.
How am I being aggressive? By pointing out your inexperience. There’s a couple very good examples of you giving misinformation on the Soul thread. Blaming the kite for your inexperience even though we had told you numerous times what was wrong you still refuse to believe us and claim the kite was the problem etc...

I’m the type that if I see wrong information I’ll point it out. Too much bad info out there.

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Re: Help with new kites

Postby Kristan » Wed Apr 10, 2019 9:28 am

Adventure Logs wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:04 am
How am I being aggressive? By pointing out your inexperience. There’s a couple very good examples of you giving misinformation on the Soul thread. Blaming the kite for your inexperience even though we had told you numerous times what was wrong you still refuse to believe us and claim the kite was the problem etc...

I’m the type that if I see wrong information I’ll point it out. Too much bad info out there.
Just because I was wrong once doesn't mean that kite doesn't have flaws that were confirmed by other kiters. And yet again, you are ignoring my words about other kiters and target it all against me and my "inexperience". :nono:


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