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Help with new kites

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BigSky
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Re: Help with new kites

Postby BigSky » Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:06 am

Kristan, please take your negativity elsewhere. I've watched every video and ready every post on the Soul 5x before spending a fortune on a quiver and the points you make are new to me. This thread has really valuable information in it on solo landing. Thank you to the more experienced posters and keep up the information. I'm looking forward to trying it out. I had brake lines installed on all my bars. I realize this isn't required but it seems easier with a sand spike for a newer pilot. Any issues with these? Super helpful guys. Thank you.

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Re: Help with new kites

Postby andylc » Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:22 am

I also use a back line strap (on the Ozone foil bar) and a spike, it’s really useful to be able to land the kite and leave it on the spike between sessions. I wouldn’t leave it unattended like this but in low / medium winds I’ve never had a problem with this. I find the comment about air pressure strange - the Soul holds air better than any other foil kite I’ve used.

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Re: Help with new kites

Postby mgs » Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:11 pm

@andylc
With respect to using a “spike” do you leave it on the beach at a predefined location or do you carry it with you when kitesurfing.
Never quite sure what’s best.
The brake handle on the Ozone bar works perfectly well.
Last edited by mgs on Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Help with new kites

Postby andylc » Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:23 pm

I just leave the ground stake with my kite bag and then if I want to use it it’s available. Can’t really understand people saying it’s better without a brake line - I find it a pain to have to walk all the way up the lines in order to secure the kite.

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Re: Help with new kites

Postby foilholio » Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:11 pm

You can use your harness as an anchor. Just bury it.
andylc wrote: Can’t really understand people saying it’s better without a brake line
Brake strap/line? It hinders and I think actually prevents more advanced manipulation of the rear lines for more advanced things. Like stall turns, propeller rotations, one handed relaunch with rotation, loops with bar spin, continuous loops and more. In general it is just an annoying extra thing that gets in the way. It seems to have a benefit but you can still do what it does in other ways. It overall has way more negatives.

Kristan wrote: You gotta be really careful backstalling Soul in winds over 10 knots.
Why? Backstalling is only a issue to the amount there is pull, which relates to the size of the kite and amount of wind. Maybe for 21m in 10knots you could have some pull, for a little bit. But in 10 knots most kites should sit on the ground with no line tension, so quite relaxed.
Kristan wrote: I had hard time keeping it still after backstall, because it rather pulled like mad, jumped up and down, or trailing edge inverting and kite lifting up because of it.
You are not holding the correct amount of rear line if this is happening. This is just experience and maybe how you have the bar setup.
Kristan wrote: The problem with Soul that it's very narrow golden ratio whether you pull steering lines too hard or not enough.
Not correct even slightly.
Kristan wrote: Even getting withing that range is not permanent, because as soon as Soul lands on the trailing edge it loses air pressure really fast. And by that the kite loses its shape, trailing edge becomes softer, getting picked up by the wind and kite lifts up inverted.
Not correct either. As a kite looses air it will stay on the ground better. This should be blatantly obvious when you first setup a deflated kite !?!?
Kristan wrote: unhook and run by the lines.
You can do it like that and I do most times, but I usually land into wind shadows. You otherwise can flag or work up all 4 lines with tension still in them. Not easy with race lines I know.
Kristan wrote: It's not my only experience. There were plenty of reports of Soul not behaving that well after backstall.
Correlation is not causation.

The problems you are having are the same problems one who is new to foil kites has. May I suggest first that many who are new to foil kites have Souls but very experienced foil kiters likely do not have Souls ( it's dark on this side).
Last edited by foilholio on Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Help with new kites

Postby Adventure Logs » Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:21 pm

foilholio wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:11 pm

The problems you are having are the same problems one who is new to foil kites has. May I suggest first that many who are new to foil kites have Souls but very experienced foil kiters likely do not have Souls ( it's dark on this side).
Agreed with everything except that last part :D Been flying foil kites exclusively for 8 years now. I love my 8m Soul; it is my favorite out of all those years. I will be getting the new Sonic when it comes out though for my larger foil kite.

=Jason-

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Re: Help with new kites

Postby Kristan » Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:22 pm

Yup, 12m Soul in the middle of the power zone in 12-ish knots have no pull. At. All. :lol:

Image

Oh, but here I am spreading negativity again! Totally not trying to warn BigSky that things are not easy as "experienced" kiters speaking of, which might lead to loss or damage of kite, or even injury. :roll:

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Re: Help with new kites

Postby Horst Sergio » Wed Apr 10, 2019 9:44 pm

BigSky wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:06 am
...This thread has really valuable information in it on solo landing. Thank you to the more experienced posters and keep up the information. I'm looking forward to trying it out. I had brake lines installed on all my bars. I realize this isn't required but it seems easier with a sand spike for a newer pilot. Any issues with these? Super helpful guys. Thank you.
Hi BigSky,
nice you like the kite, which is indeed one of the best foil starter kites since many years I know.

1. For solo landing a foil kite there are many technics which should be choosed by reflection the own abilities, wind force and spot situation. Much to much variablity to start to explane, on the end it is all about experience and refecting your abilities. If you are not sure about this, the safety is always your option Nr. 1 as in some cases in strong winds also for me, additionaly sometimes in the (shallow) water, in distance to all obstacles.

2. If you have to solo land very often in higher winds without useful windshadows or soft obstacles for the kite, you may think about a 5th "FDS"-line even if there is no serial one offered, but it is not hard to refit one form a similar kite like here: https://flysurfer.com/downloads/downloa ... -fds-12-0/ just take care it has a secured breaking load of over 160 daN overall and 1/2 m of slack to not influence depower sitting most time on B-level.

3. If you land the way first wind window side than backstall by "over sheeting" I do not recommend a break line and especially not a sand spike even if some manufacturers are giving this with the kite. In short, both in my eyes is not necessary but instead prevents clean usage but can cause even dangerour situation. I used both around 17 years ago and had my, unwanted 20 m fullpower jump starts ... and running behind kites after they stayed "without problem" on their spiked place for many sessions ... till everything went wrong , etc. ...
I also don't recommend to grab into tensioned flying lines to pull yourself to an unfixed kite.

4. One of the most important way to control a foil kite in many situations, not just landing, which unfortunately even many foil kiters after 10 years never learned, is shown in this video from Armin:

It is very valid to learn to stear your foil kite all ways and the moment when you can't sheet in anymore as your bar touches the chickenloop is the moment you should learn to over sheet by exactly: slipping with one hand to the floater and kicking it out and then pulling it in while the other hand goes on pulling in the other side of the bar stick. Just try it in low wind first and then get the feeling in which wind you may control landing your kite this way.
This way you can:
- backstall your kite in lulls,
- when you want to controll it during landing,
- if you want to pull it into the wind window to produce a short power spike,
- to have the ears filled and popped out during start
...
and even if you missed a jump to prevent swinging under the kite, as I do here
just get used to this movement and as said better detach break line as it will block this very helpful grab
oversheeting_foilkite.jpg

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Re: Help with new kites

Postby jakemoore » Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:06 pm

I'm not a fan of leaving a closed cell foil on the ground with a ground stake. They hold enough air that the trailing edge tends to come up and result in flogging. Also enough rest pull that the stake could come out unless anchored very well. But the main thing is less flogging to lengthen the kite's life.

When I park my foil kites I land the kite and then walk to it holding the lines and then put it on the ground as a taco folded at the center chord with the wingtips downwind and a weight upwind as described in the FS manual.

Also if it is going to be anything other then a short break, I roll it and put it in the bag to reduce UV.

I prefer to have no cross line on the brakes and just backstall it down by holding one rear line in each hand.

Don't worry about Kristan, he just has Russian wind and Russian optimism.


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