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New F-one Halo. Any more info about this kite?

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foilholio
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Re: New F-one Halo. Any more info about this kite?

Postby foilholio » Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:46 am

If it is really as easy as 30mins to design a better bridle then it is hard to believe that these kite companies would not invest that short amount of time to adopted such a bridle. The fact such a "better" bridle isn't used suggest to me that it is not better and must have some serious draw backs. I would think if you were more of an expert than the expert you claim you might guess what the draw backs could be. Looking out side a singular scope may help. Like there is more than one style of kiteboarding, there would be more to making and selling kites than just designing the highest performance. Otherwise we would be all using solid carbon wings.
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kitexpert
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Re: New F-one Halo. Any more info about this kite?

Postby kitexpert » Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:17 am

foilholio wrote: If it is really as easy as 30mins to design a better bridle then it is hard to believe that these kite companies would not invest that short amount of time to adopted such a bridle. The fact such a "better" bridle isn't used suggest to me that it is not better and must have some serious draw backs. I would think if you were more of an expert than the expert you claim you might guess what the draw backs could be. Looking out side a singular scope may help. Like there is more than one style of kiteboarding, there would be more to making and selling kites than just designing the highest performance. Otherwise we would be all using solid carbon wings.
This bridle issue is of course only a part of a foil kite design. It seems that many kite companies/designers just don't care, or they don't know/can't do it better or they don't have time/interest to study how it could be done better. And after all it is true that effect to kite flight properties is usually not big (as far as bridle does its basic function properly) between very good and mediocre bridle design. In race kites this kind of optimizations are more important.

However even small advantage is still an advantage and also usability (service, untangling) for cleaner bridle is better. Better design also saves some line costs and manufacturing labor.

I've redesigned so many bridles that there are no question about if they are better. Biggest improvement was perhaps big Psycho2 which was so slow looping it without hitting ground was a challenge. After redesign it was usable kite, looped easily. I used to call it P2.5 and used it for years on :) It was a complete redesign, one of the reasons was to get rid of that horrible shrinking 4m long pulley line in the wingtips. Line saving was perhaps 30-40%, so also line drag was cut considerably.

At that point my biggest respect to (foil) kite designers was gone, even though I still appreciate a lot that work some of them do. Some not so much...

The bridle I represented has no drawbacks, there is nothing new in it. It has 2/3 of the original tertiary bridle so these lines are more stressed but it is no problem for strength. Cascading three secondary levels instead of two causes a bit more span wise compression but it is not a problem either. Slightly lower drag will make kite fly a bit further in the WW but for sure we are not seeking stability by increasing the drag for a kite that should compete Soul :)

Bridle spacing and bridle line row count are much more fundamental design parameters than how cascading etc. is done. Bridle spacing links closely to cell count and AR, which are two most defining things for any foil kite. Metaphorically bridle, ribs, D-ribs and span wise straps are the skeleton of the kite, upper and lower skins are the meat on them.

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Re: New F-one Halo. Any more info about this kite?

Postby windmaker » Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:45 pm

foilholio wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:46 am
If it is really as easy as 30mins to design a better bridle then it is hard to believe that these kite companies would not invest that short amount of time to adopted such a bridle. The fact such a "better" bridle isn't used suggest to me that it is not better and must have some serious draw backs. I would think if you were more of an expert than the expert you claim you might guess what the draw backs could be. Looking out side a singular scope may help. Like there is more than one style of kiteboarding, there would be more to making and selling kites than just designing the highest performance. Otherwise we would be all using solid carbon wings.
:thumb: From what I know designing the Halo was an 18 month project with several prototypes built before the final version so hard to believe that no time was spent designing the bridle. If there was an optimum bridle design I guess everybody would be using that and nothing else.

Halo was designed to compete with Soul and Hyperlink. It should be hitting the market as we speak so feed back from real customers will soon be available. I have had 2 sessions with the 8m and 1 on the 12m and am super excited but reserve my opinion as I haven't flown a Hyperlink or Soul since last summer.

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Re: New F-one Halo. Any more info about this kite?

Postby kitexpert » Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:49 pm

Of course I don't do my drawings from the scratch. I have dozens different designs covering most cell counts, bridle configurations, AR's etc, of course including these what Halo now uses.

windmaker
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Re: New F-one Halo. Any more info about this kite?

Postby windmaker » Sun Apr 07, 2019 3:19 pm



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