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Gin Marabou Water Relaunchable Single Skin

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markstf
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Re: Gin Marabou Water Relaunchable Single Skin

Postby markstf » Sun Apr 21, 2019 6:23 pm

Had a blast riding my new Peak4 4 and Moses T38 + Onda 633 combo in pretty gusty conditions (13 to 30+ knots) here in Sardinia! Best kite I've ever flown in such sketchy conditions, by far! Suffice it to say that I'm ordering a 5 and an 8 and will get rid of my Soul 6 and probably 10 in perspective. I'd add that self launching (and landing) the kite was a breeze. I also tried to pull the quick release on the beach (I was using the FLysurfer Infinity 3.0 CC Airstyle Bar) and I can honestly say that the Peak is the safest kite I've ever had in my quiver. I've been kiting since 1998 and lost count of them! In short, despite my initial skepticism, the FLysurfer Peak is a real game changer for me as far as Kite Foiling is concerned.

Marco

elguapo
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Re: Gin Marabou Water Relaunchable Single Skin

Postby elguapo » Sun Apr 21, 2019 8:47 pm

markstf wrote: Had a blast riding my new Peak4 4 and Moses T38 + Onda 633 combo in pretty gusty conditions (13 to 30+ knots) here in Sardinia! Best kite I've ever flown in such sketchy conditions, by far! Suffice it to say that I'm ordering a 5 and an 8 and will get rid of my Soul 6 and probably 10 in perspective. I'd add that self launching (and landing) the kite was a breeze. I also tried to pull the quick release on the beach (I was using the FLysurfer Infinity 3.0 CC Airstyle Bar) and I can honestly say that the Peak is the safest kite I've ever had in my quiver. I've been kiting since 1998 and lost count of them! In short, despite my initial skepticism, the FLysurfer Peak is a real game changer for me as far as Kite Foiling is concerned.

Marco

outside a soul 6m de-powered....the souls are WAY too "much" for the 633 wing (at least to me)
i much prefer either a wave in 4.5m or peak4 in 5m
in my hands, bigger souls are twintip territory.
and i LOVE flying souls slightly overpowered on twintips..

but depending on how the this new marabou single skin flies...
my (ultra-lightweight) foil quiver will probably be a 12m gin marabou and 5m peak4(and/or 4.5m CA wave)

markstf
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Local Beach: Foce Verde Italy, Kanaha Beach Park Maui
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Style: Wave Riding, Kite Foiling, Twin Tip
Gear: Duotone Neo 6 & 10, Naish Pivot 8 and Boxer 11, Flysurfer Peak 4 Soul 6, 10 & 15 and Sonic 2 13. Naish Skater 5'4'', Duotone Wham 5'6'', Liquid Force Spacecraft, Flysurfer Radical 5 133, Groove Skate S, Moses T60 T38 T22, Horue Caneri PRO. Moses Onda 633, FLuente Easy, Fluente, Horue H14.
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Re: Gin Marabou Water Relaunchable Single Skin

Postby markstf » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:29 pm

outside a soul 6m de-powered....the souls are WAY too "much" for the 633 wing (at least to me)
i much prefer either a wave in 4.5m or peak4 in 5m
in my hands, bigger souls are twintip territory.
and i LOVE flying souls slightly overpowered on twintips..
Couldn't agree more! In fact I fly my Souls (10 and 15) in very marginal conditions with the T38 and Onda 633. As a matter of fact, I've had a few sessions with the 10 and Moses T60/Groove Skate + Moses Fluente combos but I reckon my Sonic 2 13 is way better for fast cruising. That being said, the Soul/Flyradical combo is simply amazing for jumping!

Marco

foilholio
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Re: Gin Marabou Water Relaunchable Single Skin

Postby foilholio » Mon Apr 22, 2019 2:03 am

jatem wrote: Foilholio, could you share some examples of specific kites that slack line well? I'm interested to try them out. Compared to the LEIs I've ridden, the peak4 is miles ahead when I'm riding a hf fast in swell without any worry of the kite falling out of the sky, and without any noticeable pull.
I guess you mean foils, well I like Psycho 4 and A15, but ARCs where very good from memory. None specific advice is very helpful so I will give that. In generally the fatter, bigger, lower AR, lighter ,more C shape and better balanced the better they are at it. I would describe that there is a need from the kite to maintain it's structure and stability and sink slower. Weight and the flatness affect how quick it will sink, but a flat kite is less stable...There is also a hot air effect and inertia, with inertia more delaying anything going wrong or keeping it going right. Foils have a wonderful weight distribution compared to an LEI, they tend to hold orientation and even pitch back a little.

None specific advice is helpful because take the Psycho4 or it could be any foil, the no line tension behavior is much better as it gets bigger and worse as it gets small. This is simply best explained as the beneficial attributes improve with size. So you could hop on most large foils and it would be good, and then on smaller ones and it would not be good or bad. For example the Speeds 3/4 are acceptable at 15 but not 12 and excellent at 19/21m and better than 6m Psycho4... in fact as I only have a large A15 it could be hard to ascertain it is excellent at this in smaller sizes but it is better than large speeds.

A lot has to do with wind condition. Stable wind has a lot to do with it and speed. In some higher wind it can be so gusty as to just flip a kite with no tension. You can practically out run a kite in lighter wind and not even be able to slack in some higher wind. I have done many a thing including crashing kites upwind like line length upwind and other things like riding through and over lines. The is a limit to how this can be used.
jatem wrote: Front stalling when lines are slacked is a very undesirable trait of many kites. I have seen multiple LEIs ripped in half this season, and many that had to swim in after front stalling in waves at my local beach. Relaunch isn't a helpful feature after the fact. Prevention seems better than cure.
Well at this point I feel like a jedi master on the subject talking to a novice. Where to start. :-)

What should we call this, it is not really front stall though I can see why you would think that, lets just continue with No line tension. Yes the behavior is the same after a front stall but I am not saying a kite that front stalls or say easily is desirable, I don't think it is. This is about the behavior after the front stall. We want the kite to stay in the air as long as possible with no line tension and then continue to fly when tension returns. Foils seem excellent at staying in the air but can have some issues remaining untangled and so flyable.

In that regard it is a prevention, it has not prevented the front stall, but prevented hitting the water. But I think the point is being missed with preventing No line tension. I find kites(LEI) that progressively sit deeper to keep some tension horrible, in spite of their often owners love. No line tension despite being something to try and avoid for some potential outcome is actually something you should be desiring! Why? because simply it is the best, closest surfing feeling you will get with a kite. It literally feels like surfing without the kite. And anything you could do surfing without the kite then becomes possible, until either you are going to run lines over(not good) or something bad will happen to the kite ( like tangle). But even then riding the barrel and or getting rolled in your lines may be worth it even after the fact :-)

Onto ripping kites in half. Foils I say after much experience are much more durable than LEI in waves and in general. That is not to say they can't be damage as they can. But I have never had a foil damaged by a wave with little to no tension in the lines and I have rarely had even minor damage with serious tension in the lines and only on 1 or 2 occasions had a rip from serious tension in the lines. That said I have adopted a LEI technique for avoiding damage completely on foils, not LEI but though I hear it works well with them. The technique is to totally release the kite if a large wave is going to hit an put tension in the lines. What I have seen small even 1 foot waves with line tension do to LEIs has largely put me off them for life. I can from that understand why an LEI flyer could be so hesitant to lose tension in the lines as the consequences of dropping a kite on the water even in seemingly harmless swell can be so expensive. Learning the ropes or limits of "No line tension" I have perhaps dropped a kite 50 times in one session. That said I rarely drop one now but don't fret if I do. It has been described by others that I look like I am trying to kill kites. Well my kites (foils) are all quite happy after so many years I have to laugh at the "hot right now" dudes.

This may not help you so much on a hydrofoil as the smaller kite size and extreme low wind make no line tension exceedingly difficult. It may be what SS offer is the best option and so too has my interest. That said future could easily hold something better. Stable free flight(No line tension) has been solved a long time ago with aeroplanes, it's called Dihedral. It's lack of use? More evidence that kite designers are largely a bunch of ignoramuses?


windrider1 wrote:
Sun Apr 21, 2019 6:23 am
Haha safest traction kite available . Try to take a single skin out at the very top of its winrange and U might change your mind . Especially the small ones when depowered they make for a pretty scary ride as they collapse and then open up . Thyre excellent kites within their windrange but beyond thta very unstable
I hear your concern, SS collapse and open with a tremendous change in power. But even with a more simple small NASA wing, I could find myself maxed out on 15m lines in 20knots but if I flew it on the bridles 30-40knots became possible. Obviously at standing high it was not 30-40knots that was the weather station reading. But it shows that even with the more primitive design there's a huge versatility to the range. Also a SS has a flagging ability second to none, like a sheet in the wind they are. So there is a potential for safety and some concern. I think only experience, which currently there is very little, will show their true qualities.

elguapo
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Re: Gin Marabou Water Relaunchable Single Skin

Postby elguapo » Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:43 pm





~supposedly at 4 knots

Regis-de-giens
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Re: Gin Marabou Water Relaunchable Single Skin

Postby Regis-de-giens » Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:56 pm

Nice ! A dream ! It seems a very good relauncher...
Ok, even if 4 knots is very optimistic IMO. With my personal references, in view of sea surface, it seems 6 minimum (which is good already if actually 6). But under 8 knots, each one has his own optimisitc/ pessimistic estimation.

foilholio
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Re: Gin Marabou Water Relaunchable Single Skin

Postby foilholio » Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:56 pm

Looks good but TE never completely lost being open with the wind and a demo of TE down relaunch would be good. Wind looks 5-4 knots to me, plenty of foils can relaunch in that, though not as easy and need good technique.

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Re: Gin Marabou Water Relaunchable Single Skin

Postby Regis-de-giens » Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:07 pm

I agree and how to say that : the single skin is very good to kerp at zenith in very little wind, like almost no closed cell kite would (almost, pulsion and certainly frs light would IMO); but the relaunch is a pain in light for standars single skins like peak. SO ! if the marabou solves this and can relaunch as good as a foilkite (say in 6-7 knots), it is a victory in itself (even if not better at relaunch, but just because it will fly better at zenith and relaunch similarly).

So ok this promoting video alone us not a proof in itself, but if it is confirmed that it can relaunch in 6 knots in most configurations, that makes a winner in marginal winds vs "standard medium weight " or race closed cell kite. (and if glide L/D ratio is high enough for marginal winds)...

With a big advantage in case of low and long lulls in the water: very easy to roll and swim back to beach.

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Re: Gin Marabou Water Relaunchable Single Skin

Postby foilholio » Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:15 pm

I think Gin should send you and Horst a set of kites to demo. The weight is an issue, but I guess use of 27gr fabric would solve that easy. Easy roll up is a big plus in light wind. When I look at this concept my main benefits I imagine, are durability crashing which is horrible for small foils, power for size and drift. Problems I imagine are L/D and relaunch.

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Re: Gin Marabou Water Relaunchable Single Skin

Postby jatem » Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:44 am

foilholio wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:15 pm
I think Gin should send you and Horst a set of kites to demo.
Sounds like a good idea, I'm interested in the marabou.

The peak seems to start sinking quite quickly after it hits the water and goes flat, like when the wind completely died on me the other day. Seems you need to be decisive and promptly float towards the drowned peak as you roll up the lines. You'll want to be on a board with a bit of floatation when you're folding it up, if it's started sinking. A little back pack/strapping to put it on your back as you paddle to shore would be a good idea.


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