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No information and lack of exposure

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Kamikuza
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Re: No information and lack of exposure

Postby Kamikuza » Sun Apr 28, 2019 4:34 am

tomtom wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:43 am
I will be very short

Kiting since 2000
LEI guy all the way
had foil kites in past - every time back to LEI
Last year start hydro foiling.
Tryed LEI and foil on foil.
Selling all LEI kites.
There are big difference between foil kites - its very WIDE category - i hate a lot foil kites.
Still i LOVE a lot of things about LEIs especialy SOLID physical bar feel - its not heavy on bar - its different feel.
But as ultimate compromise foil kites have edge right now for me /and its not even close/.

Im riding 9m mid aspect close cell and 5,4,3 Single skin /for now/.
Funny. I got on the foil board then sold all my foil kites and updated my LEIs :lol:

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Re: No information and lack of exposure

Postby Flyfish » Sun Apr 28, 2019 4:43 am

Toby wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 3:14 am

But waves 2+m drop your kite once and cannot relaunch quickly...you will be back at LEI the next day.
Negative.
If you drop a foil while wave ridding on shore conditions just reverse launch it. You have to be quick, but no quicker than an LEI launch.
In fact... I watch my LEI buddies drop thier kite in the impact zone, then proceed to try to re-launch thier kites. They end up driving them straight into the next wave in trying to relaunch them.
My kite drops in the impact zone, I go straight into reverse launch mode. During the initial pull, it moves toward the beach giving me more time during my launch!
I hope that makes sense, but basically this is a fallacy that foils don't work for wave ridding.
Not true.

Somebody else said something about foils turning slower than LEI's. Yes very true, they do turn slower. But that's not my wave style. Wave ridding is not "bang the kite" back and forth like a maniac. True wave kiting is flick the kite into a drift and surf away with slack lines. Foils blow doors on LEI's for true drift.

But, I'm pretty sure that this is the best kept secret in the whole kitesurf industry. I'm pretty sure that there are only two other kiteforum members other than me that get it:
Foilholio and Stef from France

Edit:
Kami, you posted right in front of me. Funny cause I know you don't wave ride, but I know you from back in the old ARC forum days. You might get it!
But you bring up a good point:
I actually don't understand why foil riders are all switching to foil kites. I only dabble in foil board riding but I don't really get why a foil kite is any better for mowing the lawn on a foil board. But since I only dabble in foil ridding I claim ignorance.
Last edited by Flyfish on Sun Apr 28, 2019 4:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Kamikuza
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Re: No information and lack of exposure

Postby Kamikuza » Sun Apr 28, 2019 4:45 am

Meant to say -- pretty sure I've seen Speed and Soul reviewed in online magazines

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Re: No information and lack of exposure

Postby geokite » Sun Apr 28, 2019 5:14 am

Flyfish wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 4:43 am
I actually don't understand why foil riders are all switching to foil kites. I only dabble in foil board riding but I don't really get why a foil kite is any better for mowing the lawn on a foil board. But since I only dabble in foil ridding I claim ignorance.
I've only been foiling for the last 8 months (kiting since 99), but I found the LEI kites I have (Blade Skinny Boys) I had to constantly steer up, and in gusty wind (common at our flat water location) had a greater chance of falling out of the sky. Riding Kitech FRS now and find them fairly easy going.

Now that I'm not water starting nearly as much, and I think I could be comfortable with more than enough power, I might prefer LEIs for stronger wind (+15mph). I make no predictions, no expectations, and I'm open to future experiences/failures. Gear comes, gear goes. Enjoy the path.

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Re: No information and lack of exposure

Postby windrider1 » Sun Apr 28, 2019 5:34 am

Most new folks get into LEI's because thats wht they learn on and are familiar with and just following the crowd. If you have a few years kiting under your belt you will appreciate a modern foil kite . I like to compare it to teenagers that love those little supped up sport cars that are fast and nosiy and nothing else but when they become more matured leave those types of cars behind for something more refined . Like you said a foil kite offers an overall advantage over leis in many areas. I also have many years kiting under my belt and have never looked back after switching to foils If you are an experienced kiter I would not recommend a hyperlink try a chrono or soul or speed instead.

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Re: No information and lack of exposure

Postby Toby » Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:50 am

Flyfish:

Sure, you can get it back up quickly.

I mean when you can’t, and a wave washes the kite.

I once had a wet foil kite...I made sure that won’t happen again.

Sure it happens to LEI kiters too that they get washed.

But then you go back to the beach, and launch again...

But, sure thing, a LEI can be ripped apart by waves...so your session ends there.
Never heard of a foil getting ripped by a wave.

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Kamikuza
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Re: No information and lack of exposure

Postby Kamikuza » Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:32 am

Toby wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:50 am
Flyfish:

Sure, you can get it back up quickly.

I mean when you can’t, and a wave washes the kite.

I once had a wet foil kite...I made sure that won’t happen again.

Sure it happens to LEI kiters too that they get washed.

But then you go back to the beach, and launch again...

But, sure thing, a LEI can be ripped apart by waves...so your session ends there.
Never heard of a foil getting ripped by a wave.
Depends on the size of the wave. The size of waves you & I ride in, foils just float on top. Wet foil launches fine, flies heavy for a moment then is back to normal. Or ... stop dunking your kite ;)

Plus I've never had a foil kite get its TE swamped and refuse to relaunch.

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Re: No information and lack of exposure

Postby stefFZ » Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:43 am

FLandOBX wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 1:20 am
CARMELHILL wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:42 am
Does anyone use these kites for wavekiting? Or are they a niche market for low wind and foilboard kiting?
I don't know of anyone who is using foil kites for waves. They are simply too slow, and they don't have good drift capability when compared to good wave LEIs. There are some really good surf specific LEIs on the market.
I have been wave riding foil kites (mainly flysurfer and Concept Air) for many years now (nearly 15 years strapless surfing ... ouch that is not fun to say :-)) and, luckily, in many wave spots around the workd and I disagree completely. Now that I ride Concept Air Waves, I think that there is no reason to keep flying LEIs in waves (except price). My last session was last week, in 2/3m waves and 20-25knots side-on on my local spot in South of France and I was shouting alone in the surf. I came back and thought that now the only limit is me ... and that is a big one ... practice practice practice 8) :)

Here is one of the few photos I have (I prefer being in the water than taking pictures) of a big wave session last December in North Uruguay (Concept Air Wave 8.5 strapless surfing):

Image

Here is the Concept Air 4.5 on a windier day (and a lot of water movement! It was a bit scary kitesurfing alone here):

Image

Sorry no video ... I have no time to do this (kitesurfing / surfing / Family / Job take already lots of my time) but you can find some videos on HF here: viewtopic.php?f=197&t=2394428

The drift and the wind range of these wave kites are very significant. Last week, I could feel that I was very well powered with the 8.5 when going upwind but when surfing down the line I could still be able to loop the kite to replace it in the wind window to get out of the wave without being pulled off the board. For instance, last post on a guy who bought a Wave 6.5 today (in French):
Cette aile couvre 2 boudins. Elle me sert à la fois de 9m et de 6 m...Un Monstre de facilité et de plaisir !
Translation: this kite covers two LEIs. I use it as a 9m and as a 6m. A monster of easiness and fun!

My quiver is now 4.5 / 8.5 / 12.5 and a quiver of surfboards. We are now a group of riders using them, both on HF and strapless surfing and our conclusion is that there is no equivalent on the market right now (LEIs and Foils) for the combination of turning abilities / drift / wind range.

As for relaunching in waves .. well I think LEI are not that good when they fall in the break. If you're unlucky and they are leading edge down, downwind of you, often the only option is to let go. Foils tend to float over waves in the same situation.
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Kamikuza
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Re: No information and lack of exposure

Postby Kamikuza » Sun Apr 28, 2019 11:15 am

Flyfish wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 4:43 am
Edit:
Kami, you posted right in front of me. Funny cause I know you don't wave ride, but I know you from back in the old ARC forum days. You might get it!
But you bring up a good point:
I actually don't understand why foil riders are all switching to foil kites. I only dabble in foil board riding but I don't really get why a foil kite is any better for mowing the lawn on a foil board. But since I only dabble in foil ridding I claim ignorance.
I don't surf but I do *try* to ride waves :D it's just not a light wind thing for me, so it's hard to give up a rare powered TT day to ride a directional. With my foil, as long as there's enough wind to kite, there's a bit of swell that I can foil-surf on. Even with a tube 8)

Had some of my most memorable sessions on my S3 15, and some of the biggest nightmares on the same gear :lol: Just got sick and tired of the tuning and maintenance, how constantly "on" they are, and how fussy they are about our gusty wind. LEIs don't have the same performance, but just keep chugging along for me.

I learned to foil pretty much solely on the S3 12, which was actually pretty good for the task but going to the 10m Crossbow was even better when I had the finesse to cope with the smaller kite. For how I like to foil now, I think I really need a wave kite. The Switchblades are okay-ish, but when you catch a swell you have to keep an eye on them. I'm tempted by the Peak4 eh :D

For those that care, better upwind angles and more apparent wind is what the foil kites give foilers. You just can't keep up with LEI.

... it was particularly amusing that after years of people mocking me and my foil kites, when the pros finally switched to them suddenly everyone here got them.

Cue the utter chaos on beach and in the water cos nobody can handle them :lol:

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Re: No information and lack of exposure

Postby mar menor » Sun Apr 28, 2019 1:40 pm



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