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Self launch and self land option

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Janus
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Re: Self launch and self land option

Postby Janus » Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:21 pm

Bille wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 2:44 am
edt wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:21 pm
... Maybe if you connect a short line that is usually slack but takes up tension on a center line flag that goes from the Z to the A mixer?
...

When i , "Need" to descend rapidly, on my PG ; it's the B lines
that i pull. It folds the kite in 1/2 , and drops me about 1600 ft/min.

Maybe figure out a way to do the same with a ram-air ?

Bille
Can't escape cloudsuck with a B-Stall, Bille... 8)
On my Peak4's there is a B-stall safety line option.. not attached but snow kiters do use it when they reached the top.
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CARMELHILL
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Re: Self launch and self land option

Postby CARMELHILL » Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:45 pm

[/quote]

Can't escape cloudsuck with a B-Stall, Bille... 8)
On my Peak4's there is a B-stall safety line option.. not attached but snow kiters do use it when they reached the top.
[/quote]

Is there any reason that the 5th line used on snow kites can't be used on the water? I'm not talking about for relaunch.....only to flag the kite in half like a taco, and land it, without it pinwheeling and making a mess of the lines and bridles.

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Re: Self launch and self land option

Postby edt » Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:57 pm

We can use 5th line but the problem is a lot of us have started kiting mostly in 4 line mode for various reasons

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Re: Self launch and self land option

Postby drsurf » Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:20 pm

CARMELHILL wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:45 pm
Is there any reason that the 5th line used on snow kites can't be used on the water? I'm not talking about for relaunch.....only to flag the kite in half like a taco, and land it, without it pinwheeling and making a mess of the lines and bridles.
No reason, you can use the 5th line on Peak4 kites on the water if you want. But why would you? It's a very fine line that can tangle with the other lines and the Peak4 can be brought to the ground without it, and you shouldn't have any any mess of the lines/bridles.

If you just crash the Peak4 into the ground/water, it will collapse and be easy to manage. It has no structure when it collapses and presents very little material to the wind to become a problem like twin skin and inflatable kites.

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Re: Self launch and self land option

Postby JakeFarley » Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:26 pm

My 21m Speed 5 has a couple of attachments on the center of the kite that do not have bridle lines attached. I wonder if these were intended for 5th line use for landing? Anyone know?

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Re: Self launch and self land option

Postby Bille » Mon Sep 21, 2020 5:04 pm

Janus wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:21 pm
Bille wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 2:44 am
edt wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:21 pm
... Maybe if you connect a short line that is usually slack but takes up tension on a center line flag that goes from the Z to the A mixer?
...

When i , "Need" to descend rapidly, on my PG ; it's the B lines
that i pull. It folds the kite in 1/2 , and drops me about 1600 ft/min.

Maybe figure out a way to do the same with a ram-air ?

Bille
Can't escape cloudsuck with a B-Stall, Bille... 8)
On my Peak4's there is a B-stall safety line option.. not attached but snow kiters do use it when they reached the top.
So it Would work ?
I'm gonna modify my A-15 , to do that ; really do not like the
5'th line option as it's connected in stock mode.

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Re: Self launch and self land option

Postby Foil » Tue Sep 22, 2020 4:14 am

Bille wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 5:04 pm
Janus wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:21 pm
Bille wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 2:44 am


When i , "Need" to descend rapidly, on my PG ; it's the B lines
that i pull. It folds the kite in 1/2 , and drops me about 1600 ft/min.

Maybe figure out a way to do the same with a ram-air ?

Bille
Can't escape cloudsuck with a B-Stall, Bille... 8)
On my Peak4's there is a B-stall safety line option.. not attached but snow kiters do use it when they reached the top.
So it Would work ?
I'm gonna modify my A-15 , to do that ; really do not like the
5'th line option as it's connected in stock mode.
I am thinking that if you release a normal closed cell twin skin kite on to a 5th line with fully pressurized cells in stiff winds, it may rip the middle seam in half as it suddenly folds in two under pressure.
my hyperlinks which are dual mode kites, the instructions warn not to operate the 5th line option if the air intakes and 5th line center zips are not configured for open cell use as in use for land base sports.
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Re: Self launch and self land option

Postby Bille » Tue Sep 22, 2020 4:59 am

Foil wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 4:14 am
...

I am thinking that if you release a normal closed cell twin skin kite on to a 5th line with fully pressurized cells in stiff winds, it may rip the middle seam in half as it suddenly folds in two under pressure.
...
Had not , thought of that ; ------------------ :thumb:
the PG is open-cell, so the air can escape Fast , when
B-lined ...


Bille

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Re: Self launch and self land option

Postby joriws » Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:47 am

JakeFarley wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:26 pm
My 21m Speed 5 has a couple of attachments on the center of the kite that do not have bridle lines attached. I wonder if these were intended for 5th line use for landing? Anyone know?
Yes those are *FDS* attachment points which will fold kite in half on safety. And I understand it requires a bit of line length design to have it function correctly. But they should not be used for everyday (medium to high wind) landing due to stress load to cell seams on bottom fabric. As kite flying as normal, stress is like "-" but shortly after safety activation kite goes "v" causing airfoil lift to go down to single seam where FDS attachment points are located.

And generally 5th line is a nice *gift* wrap for kite if it inverts for some reason. In FLS/4-line mode you can continue session even if front-back-lines are inverted (kite inverts throught the bridles back to normal belly down flying position) but 5th line will wrap kite as bowtie.
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Re: Self launch and self land option

Postby Foil » Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:13 am

a few days ago I tried the method mentioned a few pages back, and it worked for me Ist time, even though I was very nervous and unsure at the time as it was a stiff wind for my 11mtr Chrono V3, and far too windy to even think about a brake line landing.
But I had it planned out, I was carrying my ground peg in its pouch on the back of my harness ready for action.
the beach was just firm sand, massive area and no shells or rocks, nothing downwind for 2 km.
method I used ----
bring kite down to my left(as I am right handed I prefer to use my right hand on the brake strap(only using the leader line balls for this is a no no for me, brake strap only! much safer for me)
when the kite is sitting on its left side ear, get set and plan the next moves which are-
left hand steady on the bar in the centre
right hand under the bar and grasp brake strap firmly just right of the centre, look at your grip to check its just right of central.
look to your left and plan where you need to run to-- to be dead in line upwind wind of the kite when you do the next step, ensure of course that the area is clear of kite bags, foil boards or onlookers.
deep breath!
start rotating the kite down slowly onto its trailing edge with the brake strap, at the same time start moving left slowly at first, to check all looks steady and correct, then apply more brake to steadily rotate the kite flat onto its trailing edge- at the same time run swiftly in an arc round to the left, watch the kite rotate on to its trailing edge pulling in more firmly to ensure you have pulled in past the relaunch point of pressure, watch for any over rotation about to happen and correct your hand position on the brake strap, slide your hand into dead centre of the brake strap to hold the kite cleanly trailing edge down, and of course remove your left hand from the bar,.
drop to your knees and hold the brake strap hard into in to your knees and fist against the sand, with your left hand remove your ground stake from its pouch push into the sand as normal --right alongside your right hand which has hold of the brake strap, drive the stake in deep and around 35deg angle in, slip the brake strap over the stake and finally drive the stake to full depth,
finally when happy the kite is rock steady undo the bar quick release, and finally the 2nd safety release and run to the kite to grab the favoured end ear of the kite and run back upwind holding the kite low to flag out the kite flat on the ground,
quickly sand down the kite, open deflate zip, and quickly as possible get to the far end ear to pile on sand to stop any line tangles if the ear is jumping around.
it works well!
but takes a leap of faith.
one foiler watching from the water was well impressed and asked "how the hell did you do that landing"
"and why did you not ask me to land you"
"because at some point I may need to self land myself again in a strong wind" I explained!
Last edited by Foil on Sun Oct 04, 2020 9:17 am, edited 2 times in total.
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