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flysurfer soul long mixer test

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evan
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Re: flysurfer soul long mixer test

Postby evan » Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:18 am

Adjusting the back lines only change the position of the stall point and not the relation between the Z/brake bridle row and the rest of the bridle when Z shrinks over time.

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Armin Harich
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Re: flysurfer soul long mixer test

Postby Armin Harich » Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:26 am

If you measure like defined there is no difference.

Defined is that you take the top end of Z and A Main at one Level and than measure B and C. That way, there is no benefit of changing Z-Main.

Lets keep is as simple as possible and that way it is perfect accurate. Only if you measure the whole bridle like we do at paraglider, you can beat it. But that is more than 10x the work and not necessary.

Cheers, Armin

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Re: flysurfer soul long mixer test

Postby foilholio » Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:47 pm

Armin you can't possibly believe adjusting the rear lines and Z length are the same.

If you wanted to keep it simple what is more simple than just adjusting Z vs C with B. An adjustable stopper knot on the pulley line would be good too. You can do away with the rear main too, so less complicated to make.

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Re: flysurfer soul long mixer test

Postby joriws » Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:53 pm

Topic is about Soul but I want to ask if same technique measuring at bridle top end can be used with Speed4 Lotus-series kites?

I needed to change spare part lines but also z-main and z-br-extension lines and depower line. So I am asking quickest way to determine that total tune is ok.

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Re: flysurfer soul long mixer test

Postby jakemoore » Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:42 pm

joriws wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:53 pm
Topic is about Soul but I want to ask if same technique measuring at bridle top end can be used with Speed4 Lotus-series kites?

I needed to change spare part lines but also z-main and z-br-extension lines and depower line. So I am asking quickest way to determine that total tune is ok.
Add the length of every bridle above the main lines. E.g. A1 + a1. Then B1 + b1 etc. Then subtract from (BR-main-ext + BR1 + br1). You get a number that shows how much shorter a b and c are than z. You can put marks on the Z with a permanent marker to make it easier to tune.
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joriws
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Re: flysurfer soul long mixer test

Postby joriws » Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:54 am

jakemoore wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:42 pm
joriws wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:53 pm
Topic is about Soul but I want to ask if same technique measuring at bridle top end can be used with Speed4 Lotus-series kites?

I needed to change spare part lines but also z-main and z-br-extension lines and depower line. So I am asking quickest way to determine that total tune is ok.
Add the length of every bridle above the main lines. E.g. A1 + a1. Then B1 + b1 etc. Then subtract from (BR-main-ext + BR1 + br1). You get a number that shows how much shorter a b and c are than z. You can put marks on the Z with a permanent marker to make it easier to tune.
So it goes for doing excel sheets etc. I was just hoping to get confirmation if visual inspection of "level" would be enough.

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Re: flysurfer soul long mixer test

Postby jakemoore » Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:52 pm

joriws wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:54 am
I was just hoping to get confirmation if visual inspection of "level" would be enough.
Z is significantly longer than A B and C. And they are probably all different. Once the mark is made is easy to do a quick inspection. I have at times done the long mixer each rib where the break lines and other lines are connected in a row so tips can also be tuned, e.g. at the a7 rib.

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Re: flysurfer soul long mixer test

Postby kitexpert » Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:38 pm

foilholio wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:47 pm
Armin you can't possibly believe adjusting the rear lines and Z length are the same.
For sure he doesn't think it is same. But even for a professional following these discussions (and not in his own language) can be tiring and confusing.
foilholio wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:47 pm
If you wanted to keep it simple what is more simple than just adjusting Z vs C with B.

It is simple but it is not same and not as precise as Armin's (correct) method.

Best way to do adjustments is to do it separately for each part of the system: 1)flying lines 2)mixer 3)bridle. Then and only then it is possible to learn how different parts behave in use, to fix them accordingly and to rule out the culprits one by one. This is more important and useful when problems are more severe and harder to solve.

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Re: flysurfer soul long mixer test

Postby foilholio » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:19 am

It was a bit sarcasm, but an honest question.

I agree that it is best to adjust separately for components, but I disagree that Armins way is correct. For one B is bound to adjustments made by C, which I think you would agree is a bad thing given you and me agree it's best to adjust separately. Changes to B and C in 1:2 ratio have the same effect as altering Z, except changing B affects the B limit as well.

For a foil novice understanding and just adjusting Z is far better than engaging in the adjustment of both B and C. Although 2 adjustments vs 1 does not sound like a radical change in complexity, it is actually in practice. This is I think for one 2 vs 1 is more complicated but mainly that because of the undocumented, lack of understanding and actual false information spread on the B limit, undesirable effects can be produced when adjusting B. The problem is ultimately summarized that to adjust a kite correctly you need all 3 BC and Z to change. There is other ways though and one of them would be a better mixer I think. If you could adjust the effective length of the C pulley line and B pulley line didn't hit a limit, then you could do away with the need for a B adjustment. Without the need for a B adjustment the mixer could be more compact. The only adjustments you would have are Z C and a stopperknot on the C pulley line,to change it's effective length. The design could have adjustment for Z be on knots to move between or move themselves or either or both an adjustment on Z itself. Because C would need little or no adjustment it's main could be reduced in diameter, and between that and the more compact lengths of the other mains it should save weight.


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