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flysurfer soul long mixer test

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cwood
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Re: flysurfer soul long mixer test

Postby cwood » Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:04 pm

Flyfish wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:12 pm
Armin Harich wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:53 am
If someone wants to play with out old flash mixer app, to see how the Mixer is deforming the airfoil, here it is: https://www.dropbox.com/s/srlmlk90mmc9t ... p.zip?dl=1
Armin,
I'm a computer idiot. Is there anyway you or someone else can film the screen of the mixer app in motion and stick it on YouTube?

Maybe another forum member out there?

I've been interested in seeing that for quite awhile!

Thanks
It's quite easy to run. Download it, double click the file, Winzip or Winrar will run and show you the files inside the arvhive....double click "mixer.html" and bingo you have it. Also note, the text in the program refers to "Chamber" but I think what is mean is airfoil "camber".

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Re: flysurfer soul long mixer test

Postby PabloQ » Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:29 am

Flyfish wrote: I'm a computer idiot. Is there anyway you or someone else can film the screen of the mixer app in motion and stick it on YouTube?
In the video of the mixer test is the recording of this program and shows how it changes to the camber of the sail as B and C move. There it is clear and it is graphic with the fluctuation of the profile.
Perhaps for someone who has little experience, it is difficult to relate the behavior of the kite with the camber caused.
regards

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Re: flysurfer soul long mixer test

Postby Adventure Logs » Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:32 am

foilholio wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 9:34 pm

By far the easiest and most effectual adjustment is to add an extension to Z and use the mixer test to restore the B limit with the mixer level. Then adjust the length of Z till the kite flys how you like it. Most likely lengthening Z.

The way in which I had adjusted Z on flysurfers, although being clean and needing no extra parts, has the disadvantage of moving the trim position of the bar when you adjust Z length and being a little hard to fine tune Z, although Z is very tolerant to not being exactly right. I think you may be better just using a pigtail, but also still using the rear main and joins to adjust it on the fly.
Hey do you have any pics of how you are lengthening Z line? I'm trying to coax a Lotus 10m back into shape and it's flying like a dog. Thanks

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Re: flysurfer soul long mixer test

Postby foilholio » Wed Jun 26, 2019 12:57 pm

I think I posted a pic before I will have a look otherwise I can again. It is quite simple I will try describe them.

Method 1 is to disconnect the C pulley where it joins the rear main-pigtail and Z main, ie the rear of the mixer. You then connect the C pulley line as a larkshead onto a 8 knot made in the rear main. Like that it can also move connection to the rearmain/zmain join or the rearmain/rearline join so as to quickly adjust length.

Method 2 is to instead disconnect the Z main at the same spot and connect it to a pigtail. The pigtail can larkheads like in the previous method.

The disadvantage of Method 1 is when you adjust the Z length by moving the C pulley connection it also changes the trim. It is also a little hard to adjust the knot in the rear main.

Method 2 is a little less clean if you have a simple pigtail with a knot, but you can do other methods that are cleaner.
Armin Harich wrote: It is important to measure with 5 Kg load. Otherwise you will set C and B main up to 5mm too long.
The reason is that the sparepartlines are more elastic due to less prestrech to decrease shrinkage while ruling over the pulleys.
cwood wrote: great back and forth support from FS engineering, they do not recommend Z stretch as they quickly return to the shrunken state after a bit of use.
If for plain mixer test I have never used 5kg, and it has worked fine. 5mm is nothing. Older flysurfers are never correct with a level mixer unless recently restretched though. Restretch does work but doesn't last forever.

If you use 5kg for the long mixer test you will significantly stretch Z out (depending on condition) and that will in turn change your adjustments for B and C. Most likely far more than 5mm more like 20 to 50mm. A lot depends on how the kite is designed to work with shrink. But to measure shrink and so work with it you need to use as low a force as possible, well that is my belief and it seems correct.

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Re: flysurfer soul long mixer test

Postby foilholio » Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:55 pm

Adventure Logs wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:32 am
foilholio wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 9:34 pm

By far the easiest and most effectual adjustment is to add an extension to Z and use the mixer test to restore the B limit with the mixer level. Then adjust the length of Z till the kite flys how you like it. Most likely lengthening Z.

The way in which I had adjusted Z on flysurfers, although being clean and needing no extra parts, has the disadvantage of moving the trim position of the bar when you adjust Z length and being a little hard to fine tune Z, although Z is very tolerant to not being exactly right. I think you may be better just using a pigtail, but also still using the rear main and joins to adjust it on the fly.
Hey do you have any pics of how you are lengthening Z line? I'm trying to coax a Lotus 10m back into shape and it's flying like a dog. Thanks
Here is the nonpigtail method, I recommend a pigtail instead on Z but you can see how to use the locations around and on the rear main to adjust with either method.

Image

from thread

viewtopic.php?f=197&t=2392205
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Armin Harich
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Re: flysurfer soul long mixer test

Postby Armin Harich » Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:16 pm

Thank you foilholio, for your Support and Help to the community.

But we cannot recommend to make knots into the lines as it can weaken the lines up to 50% of the breaking strength.
If it is at the splice where the line is doubled it is less a problem. But the knot is exactly where the 2 splices end and there it will be a weak point.

Thank you, Armin

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Re: flysurfer soul long mixer test

Postby foilholio » Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:11 pm

Thank you Armin for your concern.

Few facts. I have done this for many years with no breaks. I have used my kites very hard , kite loops etc and broken nearly everything else. It would seem the rear mains are well over engineered and they are. The line on the rear main is double that of rear lines. So a 50% reduction in strength, which is not for a 8knot but a more simple knot, would not be less than the rear lines. But wait the gap in the middle! Well you can avoid it by doing the knot above or below, as I guess you indicated, but there is also good reason to think the knot on it won't weaken it as it is the radius of the bends that cause weakening and depending exactly where in the knot that gap is would depend if it contributes to further weakening or at all. To be safe though you can just do the knot a bit up or down.

In the original thread the purpose of the knot and whole mod was to give a way to adjust Z so to be able to restore the maximum depower limit on B while keeping the ratio of BCZ constant. With that then it is quite unlikely to need to place the knot exactly in the middle!

Anyway since you are here Armin and you have noticed my post and seemingly others, I have noticed your less direct replies to some, I would like to ask a question.

Why is it Flysurfer chooses to not Adjust Z?

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Armin Harich
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Re: flysurfer soul long mixer test

Postby Armin Harich » Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:40 am

Why is it Flysurfer chooses to not Adjust Z?
I know, some people want to do it. But it is not necessary at all. You can adjust the backlines at the bar, if the kites get too much powered up.
So you can compensate shrinkage of backlines, Z-Main and bridle with one thing instead of tuning 3 different parts:

With the SOUL, it is now easy to find the perfect Trimm easy and fast:


Cheers, Armin

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Re: flysurfer soul long mixer test

Postby merl » Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:19 pm

Armin: I'm also convinced that adjusting z is the right way to go - at least for the older models that I have owned. Adjusting the back lines is not the same is it?

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Re: flysurfer soul long mixer test

Postby Armin Harich » Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:11 am

The described way ist the most easy possibility to adjust it. Lets keep it as simple as possible.


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