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Kitesurfing with a diy foil kite

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kitexpert
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Re: Kitesurfing with a diy foil kite

Postby kitexpert » Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:38 pm

You possibly need to add some lines for B and C line rows, you can copy them from A line row. Measurements are not at all critical because you can and you have to adjust it anyway.

Like I wrote earlier, mixer is not the problem but the kite itself. After adding a mixer you can make some adjustments for camber but don't expect too much for it.

Better if you leave it like it is, a fixed AoA kite. It already has an AoA which works and that is very much correct AoA for it. If you decrease it it will front collapse, if you increase it it will be slow and heavy pulling tractor close to back stalling. You can kitesurf with fixed AoA kite when wind is right for it, but because your kite is so small I don't think it is good idea. Perhaps with hf it may be possible, kite isn't that critical then if you just want to move. Many use weird kites with hf and also primitive hand held wing is enough to get going.
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kitejumping
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Re: Kitesurfing with a diy foil kite

Postby kitejumping » Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:58 am

Did you ever convert yours? I wouldn't want to use it on water but I could see it being fun on a high wind day snowkiting. I started redoing the bridle on mine eyeballing it last year based off a similar kite, but other things came up and I never finished it.

kitexpert
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Re: Kitesurfing with a diy foil kite

Postby kitexpert » Thu Apr 09, 2020 11:32 am

kitejumping wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:58 am
Did you ever convert yours? I wouldn't want to use it on water but I could see it being fun on a high wind day snowkiting. I started redoing the bridle on mine eyeballing it last year based off a similar kite, but other things came up and I never finished it.
Yes, in the early days it was common to try to add a mixer to fixed AoA kites. Results weren't good, range of use didn't get much better. Main problem is front collapsing when depowering, and it is a serious problem. When you see how much different airfoil and also shape of the skins are in depowerable kite you immediately see how big problem it is.

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Re: Kitesurfing with a diy foil kite

Postby Regis-de-giens » Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:56 pm

Years ago I turned a fixed bridle power kite ( closed cell, Pansh Adam 5.5m2) into a depowerable kite by adding a speed system ; If you can read French, I can give you a link of the related discussions but it is quite painful (to read, not to do !); I should also have a video of the mod.

But the result mat be great (I used my mod kite as a very forgiving trainer kite but also on a hydrofoil in 20 knots).

To allow for lower AoA when depowering, I had to decrease the camber a lot ... a lot ... (*) But the result is fine.

(*) this is also why for a similar size, a depower kite has less power than a depowerable kite

Rein de Vries
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Re: Kitesurfing with a diy foil kite

Postby Rein de Vries » Thu Apr 09, 2020 10:21 pm

Thanks! I will give it a try. Have my mixer ready and only need to add some lines now. A forgiving HF kite for stronger winds sounds like music to me 😉

Then still a question, playing around in Surfplan I see it only calculates bridles where ABC primary meet in one point. Do you use this directly with a mixer as Kitexpert suggests, or do you make some conversion on top?

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Re: Kitesurfing with a diy foil kite

Postby kitexpert » Fri Apr 10, 2020 12:01 am

Rein de Vries wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 10:21 pm
Thanks! I will give it a try. Have my mixer ready and only need to add some lines now. A forgiving HF kite for stronger winds sounds like music to me 😉

Then still a question, playing around in Surfplan I see it only calculates bridles where ABC primary meet in one point. Do you use this directly with a mixer as Kitexpert suggests, or do you make some conversion on top?
But your kite is not a low AR easy kite like Pansh Adam. I remember those dutch diy kites and I also remember they noticed the problems with them and how they changed their designs later. So I wouldn't expect anything like forgiving hf kite for stronger winds can be achieved.

You can get practically any kind of bridle out of Surfplan, just keep on working with it. But like I wrote you can copy that line or lines which continue from the current meeting point of ABC primaries ans use it or them for B and C.

I found a picture of s50 kite. It has quite a lot AR and it doesn't look at all to be depowerable. It has a primitive bridle and many other things that tell it is outdated kite. Redesigning bridle to it would make conversion easier but it wouldn't help the issue itself, which is the kite.

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Re: Kitesurfing with a diy foil kite

Postby Rein de Vries » Sun Apr 19, 2020 9:48 pm

So I placed the 4:2:1 mixer and adjusted it in test, it flies but needs some more tuning. I am quite optimistic I will get it to fly as it reacts pretty well to adjustments!

Mainly the tip regions show to be instable, the kite does not fully open its ears and front collapses happen now and then mainly in the tips. Thinking about reducing the top sail in the tips by a tuck that effectively works as the pma's in Flysurfers camber reduction mod. But also suspect that a bridle that opens the kite a bit more could help. Perhaps a slightly flatter canopy would force the ears open easier. Or would only a local lengthening of the tip bridles suffice? Curious to hear your ideas!
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Rein de Vries
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Re: Kitesurfing with a diy foil kite

Postby Rein de Vries » Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:05 pm

So I adapted the kite using camber reducing skin tucks over the full length of the upper sail. And adapted the bridle some, opening up the ears. The result is pretty good now, it flies much more stable and opens up well.

Being used to surf foil kites from Flysurfer and Ozone I see the following differences. Bridle drag is substantial due to the to thick lines. Some instability still in the wingtips during turns. And often some backstall in the extremes of the windwindow.

Anyone any further suggestions to improve? :D
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