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Kite size question

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Bluesideup
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Kite size question

Postby Bluesideup » Sat Aug 24, 2019 12:51 pm

Hello guys and gals.

Need your help to choose the right kite size for my low wind sessions !

The sails will replace an airush ultra v2 17m and will be my largest kite, below I have 14m and 10m Fone bandit that i don’t want to replace

I decided to go for a second hand flysurfer soul but shall I go for 18m or 21m ?

My weight is 105kgs (230 lbs), I’m a long time windsurfer and started kitsurfing only this spring but I live by the sea and right now I’m at a stage where I do transitions and finish lots of sessions with a dry sail so I would qualify me as a low intermediate level.

I never used a foil kite before.

I will use it with a door twintip (166/50cm) which now gets me going around 12kts with my 17m LEI.

What would be the windrange with both 18/21m ? Which one would you get ?

Thanks for your inputs !

collider
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Re: Kite size question

Postby collider » Sat Aug 24, 2019 5:57 pm

I'm around the same level as you (maybe a bit further along), but I pretty much only fly foils. I'm sure others will have more specific info for you, but here's my 2 cents...

I have an old Speed 3 21, and have had great sessions in 8 knots on bigger boards. For me 8-13 is the sweet spot. I'm trying to get an extra knot or 2, but at that point it's all skills that I do not yet possess (but working on!) On a crispy new soul with tuned bridles and a door, I would think you could go down a knot or 2, even at your weight. My 21 however, gets to be uncomfortable after 13-14 knots (I'm 85 kilos). I think you could get a couple extra knots on the high end with your weight as well. My 21 is very, very, very slow. It's something you have to get used to. Once it gets moving, it pulls like magic. I would imagine the Soul is faster than my old dog, but still, it's a kite for eking out the lightest winds, and for heavier riders.

I just got a Speed 5 18m, and it's better in every way, fills faster, more responsive etc... low for me right now is around 9 knots, high is around 18. Again, with some skill I should be able to get those numbers down. I'm guessing the speed 5 is much closer to the feeling of a soul, so both the 21 and 18 are probably efficient and handle beautifully.

I'm sure others will echo this, but if your goal is to stay on TT, and want the lightest winds, go fo the 21 at your size. If you plan on foiling it will most likely be too big except in the lightest winds (Regis wind 😀). A 21/15 combo would be pretty sweet (that's what I have right now in Speed 3s - the big boy combo). Since I'm a bit lighter, I'm updating slowly to an 18/12 or 13 speed 5, Sonic 2 or Soul combo.

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Re: Kite size question

Postby FLandOBX » Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:11 pm

I've got a FS Speed 4 Lotus 15 m and a Soul 10 m. So I'm not the guy to provide you with first hand experience on the Soul 21 and 18. But, my 2 cents......if it's your first foil kite, I think the 18 m would be a better choice. You will get much more low end from the 18 m Soul than you do from your Airush 17, and the 18 will give you a taste of foil kiting without the extremes of a 21 (extremely slow, extremely powerful, extremely different from your LEI's). The Soul is a great kite, but a 21 m kite of any variety is HUGE. So my vote is for the 18.

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Re: Kite size question

Postby foilholio » Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:30 pm

At your weight a 21m especially on a twintip will definitely be good. If you want to get a hydrofoil a 18m may be better.

Why buy second hand? When new is cheaper. Have a look at Pansh. 22m Aurora 2 ultralight. $578 new. Light wind king.

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Re: Kite size question

Postby elguapo » Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:51 pm

how long lines would one use with a 21m foil kite on a twin tip?

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Re: Kite size question

Postby collider » Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:10 pm

I *think* mine are 30m, but may be 25 - I've been meaning to replace/measure, but haven't gotten around to it yet. Anyway, since I use it exclusively for light wind, I've never bothered to take the extensions off. The lines are long enough now to do long, floaty loops and not end up in the water. And I often feel the layer of wind up top that shorter lines would miss.

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Re: Kite size question

Postby foilholio » Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:40 pm

21m lines are fine but 25 and 30 are good too. Best to use extensions. Using thinner lighter lines helps with light wind too.

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Re: Kite size question

Postby Adventure Logs » Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:05 am

Twintip only, go for the 21m. If you plan on using it with a hydrofoil eventually, 18m. Either way prepare for the float.

=Jason-

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Re: Kite size question

Postby Tomlutz » Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:31 am

I have Soul 21, 82 kg, can stay on a 139/42 TT from 7 knots, but need 8/9 knots to go upwind. Comfortable till 15 knots, can ride if needed up to 18 knots.

On foil I start at 5 knots with Soul 21. For me Soul 18 would do the same job, but with your weight Soul 21 could make a difference.

I have also Pansh A15 ultralight in 15m, good from 7 knots on foil. For my Soul 12 I need 8 knots on foil, but I have little practice and still need much bigger kites than experienced riders.

I have ordered a Concept Air Pulsion 18m light and hope to be able to foil from 3/4 knots.

Forgot to mention: I use lines not longer than 22m, wish I could, but space is just so limited on the spots I kite on. I am sure 30m or 40m lines would lower the low end again by 1 or 2 knots.

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Re: Kite size question

Postby joriws » Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:46 am

Bluesideup wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 12:51 pm
Need your help to choose the right kite size for my low wind sessions !

The sails will replace an airush ultra v2 17m..
My weight is 105kgs (230 lbs),
I will use it with a door twintip (166/50cm) which now gets me going around 12kts with my 17m LEI.

What would be the windrange with both 18/21m ? Which one would you get ?
I am a bit heavier than you and I use Flydoor XL which is about same size twintip of yours. My lowend with 15m Speed 4 Lotus kite was around 8-9 knottish, now with Sonic2-15m 7-8knottish. Against my Sonic2-15 I've driven Soul 18m on same twintip and I'd say in terms of pulling power Soul 18m could deliver about the same, winds were 8-9 knottish area. Soul 18m was not as dynamic as Sonic2-15 so over these two I'd select Sonic2.

On given choises I'd recommend 18m Soul or even if 2nd hand Soul 15m is available *I'd* take that and buy 6m line extensions to get to gradient.
  • Smaller kite is more dynamic on terms of inertia as larger kite has more air inside which needs to be accelerated.
  • Pulling force is more affected by kite flying speed you can achieve than extra 1m of leading edge length (wing span).
  • Less inertia => more acceleration and easier steering which emphasizes in low winds but also less "flywheel effect" which is minor drawback on power impulse
  • less fabric = lighter kite - more acceleration and more agile. Also some benefit on low winds.
  • Smaller kite might have slightly shorter bridle lines which is less drag.
Maybe difference is 1-2% per area of benefit on smaller kite but in total IMO those benefits combined compensate larger sizes pretty good and making kite flying more fun.

Human head level 3-4 knots is very low for any *closed cell* kite on water but sure if there is some wind gradient. On ice without wind gradient using skates we can kite on that area with Sonics. Not too many Soul's still on our area to compare.


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