Pansh Aurora 3

[jakemoore]

It seems to me that if anything, every single kiteboarder I know would like to spend a little less on kiteboarding yet still keep the stoke alive. Its cool to try and save money!

Every single one has bought used gear and is repairing gear from time to time. Plenty of people are flying brands that have a lower cost and budget image and reputation because they can't give a damn if people think they spend high $$$ on the gear.

Original Best model, Switch and others are all marketed as budget brands and we see the kites on the beach. People aren't ashamed to fly budget.

And so many people including myself drive an old beater car to the beach because we don't want to rust out a nicer and more expensive car.

Finally, kiteboarder love to be photographed and take photo and video or compete online in jumps through Woo. Probably 25% have a GoPro or a Woo? And photographers and drone pilots love to photograph kiteboarding because it is a photogenic sport. I thought the shadow-jumping snow kite video was cool and respect for jumping pretty high on packed ground.

I'm guessing every beach looks about the same in that department with people who want to spend less and would like a photo.

So I just can't understand for the life of me why there are literally zero Pansh kites on the beach and only very rare videos and photos of people riding Pansh kites?

[Matteo V]

Dude just stop, you are talking out of your ass.

I back up what I say with evidence and an account of my first hand experience with patient comparison. You seem to lack that ability here.

Funny how you knock on the Speeds so much but that line is a big reason why Flysurfer is the top foil manufacturer out there.

Let me put this plainly. The Flysurfer Speed series is specifically why foil kites had such a bad reputation among kiters from 2008 till present. If Flysurfer had actually done some intelligent R&D and come to the same conclusion that Ozone and Elf did later, your light wind beach would look different. The "Speed" should have been called the "Slow", and anyone with a lick of skill that I have ever seen fly back to back in the same conditions with anything from the 14m Montana 7 to the Matrixx 1, to almost any Elf or Chrono/R1 will straight up tell you that. Flysurfer held back the large foil market with their poor R&D. Sure they had no "giant kite" competition in the 18m range until Ozone/Elf, but I don't want to pay Flysurfer for the R&D that those other companies did. In fact, what is the opposite of R&D??? - that is what the speed 3 & 4 represent.

Now just to show you that I am not biased, Flysurfer deserves some credit for the Peak series as Ozone is the late one to the game on single skins.

But again, the Speed series turned off 90% of kiters interested in big foil kites. Seriously, in my experience - 9 out of 10 kiters demoing, using for a short time, or actually owning a Speed ditched it for a 15-19m inflatable. They were just that bad! Though there were worse kites like the Ozone Summit and HQ Apex, which also have no excuse.

Why are you so afraid of me releasing a Pansh video? It's hard to be biased when you'll be able to actually see with your own eyes the process and handling. There's the difference between me and you. I actually show results, I don't just bitch behind a keyboard.

BECAUSE YOU SAID THIS!!! HOW IS IT POSSIBLE FOR YOU TO NOT SEE YOUR OWN TYPED OUT BIAS BELOW?????

I strive to give basic facts and information on my posts here and through my videos.....

I do plan this summer to buy one of these cheap Pansh kites because I like to have first hand experience with such things. I will document the entire process and let others decide if the gains outweigh the risks. I will try to keep it as neutral opinionated as possible and will compare it to other modern kites. I have a feeling the kite will end up in the trash but who knows, maybe I will be surprised.

Yes I do mainly ride FS and that is the brand I prefer mostly due to the customer service and performance. I know my kites will work out of the bag and for a long amount of time even though I am EXTREMELY hard on my gear. I know the resale will be high and if I have ANY problem, it will be dealt with. That peace of mind is worth it to me. I am independent though, I am not sponsored in anyway, I just believe in their gear.

You're anti corporation attitude is so "edgy" while typing from a computer/phone brought you to by...a corporation Must be a hit with the ladies lol.

I am very thankful for corporations and the fact they they are the most efficient known way to get good products to people. But due to some serious faults and shortcomings, along with the fact that they hold profit above R&D, quality, and safety on a regular basis, I DO NOT WORSHIP THEM, nor do I "believe" in them as you do. I only review their products for what they are, not the name stamped on the side of them. So, no...I am not after hippie chicks with my realistic attitude toward corporations.

I'm done replying to you, it's obviously a waste of my time. I'm sure you'll consider this a "win" but you know what they say about wining an argument on the internet, it's like winning in the special olympics...

Again, I think reviewing Pansh kites is a waste of your time and anyone else's time who is unfortunate enough to read the review of someone like you. Being unable to acknowledge your bias, which you have actually spelled out, will produce a review of no value to anyone.

Also, referring to your statement above - a quitter is not the best type of person to test anything, special olympian or not.

[Adventure Logs]

Again, I think reviewing Pansh kites is a waste of your time and anyone else's time who is unfortunate enough to read the review of someone like you. Being unable to acknowledge your bias, which you have actually spelled out, will produce a review of no value to anyone.

I find it hilarious you are afraid of a review. It won’t be written but through video so you can see for yourself and make your own conclusions. Do you even have a Pansh kite? At least I’m willing to spend the money and time to actually find out myself. See that’s what someone with integrity does, actually goes out and finds out, not just spew words.

Wow caps and bold, no need to embarrass yourself that way lol

I’m not surprised that some people chose not to buy a Speed after just a demo. The older foils where much more technical and needed skill to get everything out unlike modern foils.

I find it hilarious that you complain about the slow turning speed while defending Pansh even though our main Pansh whore(foilholio) has claimed many times that the Pansh is also slow but that doesn’t matter to him. So what is it? Again have you even ridden one?

So you hate corporations enough to put “f—- coporations” on your profile so everyone can see in every single of your spammed posts but now you are thankful for them?? WTF? Again embarrassing lol

I think a signifícate amount of credit should go to the Soul. It really has made the connection from LEI to Foilkite. I doubt you have even flown it so your opinion on the matter is null and personally I don’t care.

This has been entertaining.

[Trent hink]

I had a bunch of flysurfer kites up until around 2008. I learned on 2 line foils. I really liked the original speeds. The only reason i switched to inflatables was that around 2006-8 they got so much better than what the used to be, they generally flew better in gusty winds, and i just couldn't afford to buy any more flysurfers.

The pansh kites are made of nylon. I have one. Nylon, even with a good waterproof coating has some problems when it gets wet.

For the money, pansh is pretty good, but there are way better options if you look at what is available in the used market.

[foilholio]

Have you had much time or any under a Soul?

I did say this before but no, I have never flown it. It looks like an excellent kite and I have a deep respect for Flysurfer's design and use of materials. I have little doubt it is probably one of the best kites currently available, but not on price. If I was to like past to get it for a deep discount sure it is good

I love my 6m with a HF, it drifts almost as well as my Peak4 3m

That is nice. For active type of drift where the kite has line tension you can always oversheet a kite to make it better. The Peak 4 is another kite I should try, though it doesn't exactly suit me. I have been told it doesn't handle slack lines well but I could make it work with previous generations. The low L/D is a concern because I like to jump and previous peaks didn't really go upwind on a surfboard.

The Sonic 2 you can wave ride some, the easy backstall helps but it's not really designed for that

All foil kites generally can be made to backstall easy, it's a fact from having to reverse fly for relaunch. Tubes move away from this because they don't need it. If you put something like a malabar on a foil kite it becomes more like a tube and the jackomixer is something a bit more foil. The Sonic 2 is high AR so it is easier to oversheet a kite like this especially if like me and most experienced foil kiters would have it setup for this. It is because of the short trim range for high AR, but also because you can use smaller sizes of them than other kites because of the performance. Most small foil kites are similar to this as well.

Also no foil(including the Peak4) will work that great when you rapidly ride into the kite but they are designed to drift(slack line) much better now than back in the Speed days.

The Psycho 4 does Arcs were excellent at it too but a bit heavy. This ability is better the bigger the foil kite, so with speeds on the 21m or even the 18 and 19m it was excellent. I would not be surprised that a higher AR 21m would be fine at it. I may one day get one just to try. After riding smaller ones I found the performance addictive and as you found you could wave ride them. I can even make them slack line, but they had to be religiously placed overhead.

I enjoy hydrofoiling because it's less impact on my body

Most definitely me too especially as I get older. Most won't be aware of the subconcussive trauma you experience kiting, especially as the wind/chop gets strong. A large percentage of people will experience the long term delirious effects of this. I know I likely have the genes for it and the low grade head aches and associated memory loss i get are disconcerting. But you have to live life don't you! There is potential treatments but they are a while away, I should probably start taking supplements to reduce it.

Say you have a LEI kiteboarder who has been thinking about switching over to foilkites. After hearing that "Pansh is just as good as xxx brand" but for much cheaper and ends up buying one. Right now of the bag he has big problems(which you are more likely than not going to have). The kiteboarder has no experience with foils, doesn't know how to tune or want to put the time and patience in to try to tune it correctly. He/she ends up having a horrible experience with it and then from the moment on believes that all foil kites are crap and inferior and shares is opinions with his fellow kiters. That's the type of scenario where I have problems.

Most definitely I 100% agree, and I have seen this happen many times with Pansh kites and from people that like foil kites too. I have also seen this happen regularly to people from tubes who buy second hand foils kites of the major brands. I have seen foil kites second hand that are in such a condition as to be described as the worst kite you could ever possibly fly. That isn't to say they can't be fixed up, because they can and I have many many a time. But I have met many people who bought these then given foils a miss or have owned a foil kite and then given up on frustration to why it won't work right after a year or 2. I have been there myself, but I worked it out in the end. It's why I try to explain things here, admittedly poorly at times.

So as well it is admirable that you have this concern, but freedom really is the best way. People need to be allowed choices and to have choices. I don't see you posting about x,y or z china kite company do I ? Why is it? Why post about just Pansh and not the many other china kite brands out there? Yes I know I post about Pansh but so too do other people. We post good things and then also sometimes some bad things about them. There is people like me that like their kites. Case in point Jacko, he bought a heap of them and likes them, he came from tube kites if I remember right. No experience with foil kites at all and then just completely reinvents the mixer! If Pansh was really horrible people would not continue to buy them, post nice things about them or spend time improving them. Pansh as well would not continue to release new models or improve existing ones. Though I have found them hard to communicate with they do if you try and they obviously listen to some people a lot.

I will reiterate allow people the freedom. Freedom of speech is great you can post what you want and so can I. This is not something I like China for, but I know the Chinese people and businesses like Pansh are not to blame for this, but a very stupid European ideology that took hold there and still threatens western freedoms every day. I actually get teary thinking of the amount of suffering and hardship it has taken to get those freedoms. People really are oblivious to the horror that awaits them as the 1st and 2nd amendment are slowly withered away, that is if they ever really existed in the first place.

So now you think adjustable mixers are stupid? What?

No... We need nuance in these conversations. I said an argument could be made that they are stupid. I didn't even make the argument, it was on http://surfforum.oase.com/. I have to say though it has sort of been floating in my mind a bit. The reason is like with Pansh having no adjustment can be fine and I know the reason for this given how things shrink. The second problem is people don't know how to do the adjustments right. The third is the adjustments like Flysurfer gives are not right or the best. The forth is it is actually not hard to add in adjustments. I lean more towards having adjustments, just if they were done right. I have discussed this with Armin, though the conversation has I guess ended. One idea he had was quite good and would allow the adjustments to be not detrimental in a way that thicker lines are needed. I added a bit to it, but I must say this is not rocket science and innovation really works well in collaboration. It is sad the culture we have has everyone so on guard about what they are doing. You don't have to have faith in the person you discuss with just take the argument on it's own. Don't make logic errors as you won't survive the internet well otherwise. And no that is not at all directed at Armin, though some could be.

Well I think I've exhausted my opinion on this matter to death so I shall leave this thread. There will always be things to argue about but it's a waste in my opinion to argue with a brick wall. You enjoy having to constantly work on your Panshs to get them to fly correctly(I know you enjoy this anyhow) while I'll continue to enjoy my Flysurfers while abusing them, putting them away wet and sandy, kitelooping them, drifting them, taking them out greatly overpowered, still relaunching them after sitting on the water for extended periods of time, being able to put a huge amount of hours on them while easily bringing them back to near factory performance, having great customer service not only from my dealer but from FS headquarters and main designers, and overall having fantastic worry free sessions, day after day

For certain Flysurfer are good kites and brand. I would like them to change a bit and so too the whole industry, but who am I ? One of the "fucktards" I guess. I do know Armin is working on some things and I will be excited to see them.

It seems to me that if anything, every single kiteboarder I know would like to spend a little less on kiteboarding yet still keep the stoke alive. Its cool to try and save money!

Every single one has bought used gear and is repairing gear from time to time. Plenty of people are flying brands that have a lower cost and budget image and reputation because they can't give a damn if people think they spend high $$$ on the gear.

Original Best model, Switch and others are all marketed as budget brands and we see the kites on the beach. People aren't ashamed to fly budget.

And so many people including myself drive an old beater car to the beach because we don't want to rust out a nicer and more expensive car.

Finally, kiteboarder love to be photographed and take photo and video or compete online in jumps through Woo. Probably 25% have a GoPro or a Woo? And photographers and drone pilots love to photograph kiteboarding because it is a photogenic sport. I thought the shadow-jumping snow kite video was cool and respect for jumping pretty high on packed ground.

Well interesting point. Most kiters are not into the whole photo thing but are happy when it happens. I get plenty of photos taken of me people have apparently taken to video too the way they hold their phones tracking me.. get to work social network people... I do however mainly ride Flysurfer, I only have a few Pansh kites.

Flysurfer have without a doubt been an extremely low cost high value kite to me. You can put an insane amount of hours on them and they last almost forever. They are quite customizable and designs as advertised were way ahead of their time. The Psycho 4 concept is still yet to really hit the market well, trust me it will, probably after we get over chickenloops though. Kite designer aren't a high IQ group. I mean why would a high IQ individual do it when they can get much more money else where? You would have to be passionate about it. And if we look at some of the best designers like Armin or Greg (BRM) etc we see some very passionate people who after so many years are absolutely in love with the sport. I am glad we have people like that or I wouldn't have as nice gear...

I find it hilarious that you complain about the slow turning speed while defending Pansh even though our main Pansh whore(foilholio) has claimed many times that the Pansh is also slow but that doesn’t matter to him. So what is it? Again have you even ridden one?

Well they are certainly not slow with a jackomixer, very simple to do too. You are correct I am a whore and I don't care for turning, well it can be nice. The 18m A15 with Jacko mixer is much faster turning but by no means a lightning kite. Matteo would likely hate it because it is also slow flying, Matrixx 2 like I think.

I think a signifícate amount of credit should go to the Soul. It really has made the connection from LEI to Foilkite.

For certain but there is a lot of foil kites past and present that are very valid. Some of the more interesting current designs to me are Peak4, Firefly, Hyperlink, Wave, Pulsion and of course Soul. I am not sure one foil kite can do everything but from the Psycho 4 I have a kite that nearly does. I had to laugh all those years to tube wave kites that couldn't jump well... Psycho 4 jumped awesome.

The pansh kites are made of nylon. I have one. Nylon, even with a good waterproof coating has some problems when it gets wet.

Yes but nylon is stronger than polyester. The light weight fabrics for ultra light foilkites and paragliders is nylon as far as I am aware...

https://www.extremtextil.de/en/ripstop- ... g-sqm.html

https://www.extremtextil.de/en/ripstop- ... g-sqm.html

https://nemoadventureanywhere.blogspot. ... on-vs.html

Strength
It’s not a fair comparison to say that Sugar Ray Robinson, a welterweight (140-147 lbs) is less strong than Evander Holyfield (heavyweight at >200 lbs). In same way, we generally try to compare fabrics ‘pound for pound’ – meaning that they are at the same denier (fineness of fiber). At the same denier, nylon tends to be a stronger than polyester and the difference can be such that a 420D nylon is stronger than 600D polyester. The strength difference shows up when you’re examining tear, abrasion resistance, or something as simple as the fabric’s ability to hold stitches. Since polyester is weaker than nylon, the thread count (and thus weight) can often be higher in polyester at the same denier.

but

The Cruel Sun
Seems pretty clear cut right? Nylon is stronger… except that in the presence of UV, it will break down and start to degrade much faster than polyester. Polyester naturally inhibits UV. Although the fiber may be weaker at the start, it holds up better over time.

One reason ultra light don't last as long. The other being a lower strength starting point from lighter fabric.




I would like to thank everyone for their comments so far, while things can go off topic and get "heated", there is some valuable exchange happening here. I should probably try some of the latest kites, if just to stay in the loop.

[bay surfer]

Give it a Break, I can buy 5 Pansh kites in all sizes for correct wind ranges for winds 6 to 50mph, for the price of one Flysurfer Kite with limited range. I can beat the hell out of them on the snow or water, if I have a kitemare 1mile out ditch the kite swim in safe, for 300$ cost who cares. Mod them, Trash them, Jump them, travel with them. Great Kites.
Lets compare Core XR6 to a LF NRG or Switch Element 6 Personally I think the NRG and the element are better Jumping kites but Half the price and better build. Oh dear their not Expensive German kite they are crap.
So what Pansh is like 80% as good as a flysurfer. Is a C kite different than a Delta, ya Da!

[Matteo V]

Again, I think reviewing Pansh kites is a waste of your time and anyone else's time who is unfortunate enough to read the review of someone like you. Being unable to acknowledge your bias, which you have actually spelled out, will produce a review of no value to anyone.

I find it hilarious you are afraid of a review. It won’t be written but through video so you can see for yourself and make your own conclusions.

I would call it disturbing to have someone review a kite that says this about it before the review.

I strive to give basic facts and information on my posts here and through my videos.....

I do plan this summer to buy one of these cheap Pansh kites because I like to have first hand experience with such things. I will document the entire process and let others decide if the gains outweigh the risks. I will try to keep it as neutral opinionated as possible and will compare it to other modern kites. I have a feeling the kite will end up in the trash but who knows, maybe I will be surprised.

Yes I do mainly ride FS and that is the brand I prefer mostly due to the customer service and performance. I know my kites will work out of the bag and for a long amount of time even though I am EXTREMELY hard on my gear. I know the resale will be high and if I have ANY problem, it will be dealt with. That peace of mind is worth it to me. I am independent though, I am not sponsored in anyway, I just believe in their gear.

I’m not surprised that some people chose not to buy a Speed after just a demo. The older foils where much more technical and needed skill to get everything out unlike modern foils.

It was not just after a demo. It was after owning them as one post has already confirmed. And this was the norm, not the exception. Again, the speed was a slow lumbering POS that turned more kiters away from big foil kites by showing them to be boring beyond belief. But no, there was very little additional skill required to keep a Speed up in the air. The later race kites and freeride kites actually have more capabilities and controls that take much more skill to utilize effectively. You just don't really need skill to fly a slow and lumbering kite, whereas a fast kite requires/allows more skill to be expressed.

I find it hilarious that you complain about the slow turning speed while defending Pansh even though our main Pansh whore(foilholio) has claimed many times that the Pansh is also slow but that doesn’t matter to him. So what is it? Again have you even ridden one?

The Matrixx 1 and Chrono 2 are very fast turning and forward flying speed kites if you are skilled at "backstall" turning and can properly sheet the foil. The Matrixx 2 is almost as slow as the speed, but it has more glide capabilities. The Pansh A-15 is very similar to the Matrixx 2 and Speed in turning speed and capabilities. Which one will set you back more $$$ for a slow a-- kite???

So you hate corporations enough to put “f—- coporations” on your profile so everyone can see in every single of your spammed posts but now you are thankful for them?? WTF? Again embarrassing lol

No, my profile says "f" the corporate world, not corporations. The corporate mentality and machine that produces defective/dangerous products, and then covers it up and "sells" is my main issue. And it has happened to me more than a few times where I was in a situation with brand new gear that was an extreme safety issue. Then the issue was either ignored, covered up, or blatantly lied about it's statistical occurrence and overall danger.

I think a signifícate amount of credit should go to the Soul. It really has made the connection from LEI to Foilkite.

The Ozone "Access" still remains the best and most similar in flight charactaristics to modern SLE kites. I can't even estimate the numerous times when I have handed other better/more capable foils to non-foil familiar kiters, and watched them struggle. But the Ozone "Access" is plug and play with prior experience on an easy going inflatable.

[malden]

Again, I think reviewing Pansh kites is a waste of your time and anyone else's time who is unfortunate enough to read the review of someone like you.

agree 100 %

[deniska]

One has to wonder if you, deniska and anyone else invading this thread are not just trying to justify your own choices. But hey I welcome any conversation. And yes I do know I post about Pansh everywhere and shit talk other gear, like duotone's lines etc.

I thought I had a valid question about aurora.
I did scan this thread and other threads and forums seeking info about the kite because, oh well, the price seemed VERY attractive.
Unfortunately, my conclusion to the date is that the kite's performance is either over-hyped by paid shills OR overestimated by folks that are not on the level to really give a qualified opinion about kites.
I think that for the type of kite aurora is aiming to be, seeing it in a good 30-40ft jump will tell more about kite's performance than 30 minute reviews of how to unpack and tune the kite just to mow the lawn with it after. I have seen people foiling with umbrellas and ikea bags so seeing someone being able to foil/TT with a kite does not tell me what I need to know.
Would this kite in 15m size boost to 30ft? Would it fold in 2 on a jump? Would it taco or overfly on landing? Usable range? Those are the real tests for gear, imho.

[foilholio]

Again, I think reviewing Pansh kites is a waste of your time and anyone else's time who is unfortunate enough to read the review of someone like you.

agree 100 %

Malden I mean seriously. Do you work for the MSM and just do this all day?

Would this kite in 15m size boost to 30ft?

Certainly.

Would it fold in 2 on a jump?

I am sorry I am not sure what you mean by this. Inflatables can do this but I have never seen or know a foil kite to do it. Are you refering to the times all the bridles have riped out on a Flysurfer or the times all the LCLs have broken?

Would it taco or overfly on landing?

Oh do you mean that? Sorry but all kites can do this to varying degrees, this is a skill not really something for the kite to do. The best kites to jump also do this the most...

Maybe if you are so concerned with jumping you should focus on honing your skills and less on what kite does what. When you are good you can progress up to something like an R1 or VMG.

Usable range?

Similar to other foil kites of the same size.

Those are the real tests for gear, imho.

No, maybe you mean specifications? but what you are implying is actually rider skill like most everything. Until you are good at these things even on poor jumping kites it really isn't worth progressing to a harder more high performance kite.

I have seen people foiling with umbrellas and ikea bags so seeing someone being able to foil/TT with a kite does not tell me what I need to know.

Well maybe when you're more experienced it will. How lucky we are that Pansh kites are better than those examples.

Unfortunately, my conclusion to the date is that the kite's performance is either over-hyped by paid shills OR overestimated by folks that are not on the level to really give a qualified opinion about kites.

Well then don't buy one. I don't care, China doesn't care, literally nobody cares. I would like to know who the paid shills are? Maybe that is where all the money Pansh gets beyond "pennies" goes. I don't see Pansh as over hyped, they are literally the cheapest and best value kites you can get by a large large margin. No they are not quite as good as the leading brands in performance or construction, but they are not nearly as far from them as you could imagine. They are simply good kites, the most affordable, best value and have decent performance.

They though could certainly be better and the only thing stopping Pansh is listening to the right people. They seem to be getting there, lets wait for this new Aeolus till we say what will or won't become of Pansh. The kite industry has been through some interesting times, and if Pansh hits the mark with a higher AR kite it will certainly only get more interesting. Which kite brand will be next to go?? Cabrinha is looking a bit sick. It couldn't happen to nicer group than the "chickenloop mafia". Stick the loop on your dick and the dick up your ass and loop it I say.

Have a nice day!