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Flysurfer Speed3 15m Sparepart Line length

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Tzwengali
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Gear: FS Speed2 15m Ozone Edge 13m, Slingshot Wave 12m, FS Psycho IV 10m, Ozone Instinct 9m
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Flysurfer Speed3 15m Sparepart Line length

Postby Tzwengali » Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:23 pm

The monsoon is over here in Goa and it is back to hydrofoiling.

I got my Speed3 15m out, but noticed that it had a very poor performance. It back stalls and pulls downwind rather than forward. Hence, I did a mixer test and adjusted some of the lines. While checking bridles and pulleys, I had the idea to also check the lengths of the other bridle lines. To my surprise 3 lines had a very different length from what is stated in the bridle plan downloaded from the Flysurfer website (see attached):
  • C-Sparepart: should be 100cm - mine 75cm
  • B-Sparepart: should be 120cm - mine 110cm
  • A-Main and Z-Main: should be 120cm - mine 115cm
These are some massive differences. While the kite is a few years old, the lines are the original ones (spliced and sewn) and I can not believe them to shrink by up to 25cm.

Anyway, I replaced the C- and B-Spearpart lines for lines of the length as given in your bridle plan (kept A and Z Main untouched), turns out the kites does not fly properly at all (nose collapsing).

Can anyone shed some light on this?
Are there different models of the Speed3-15m???
Is the online bridle plan correct? (as also asked FS directly, but have not received a response from them, yet)
What should the correct lengths be??

Also - this might be related or a different issue - I noticed that that the leading edge of the kite is dented in (like you would expect with a closed nose valve), but the nose valve is open and this effect is pronounced towards the wings of the foil. Do you have any tips on how to fix this (any internal valves stuck??).

I am looking forward to your feedback.
Best,
Sven
Attachments
speed3_15-line-plan.pdf
(759.06 KiB) Downloaded 8 times

kitexpert
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Re: Flysurfer Speed3 15m Sparepart Line length

Postby kitexpert » Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:49 pm

:o :) Those are huge shrink values, I have seen about 10% shrinks in pulley lines which is plenty enough to ruin kite performance. However, mixer length itself is not so critical to how kite flies so if you can adjust it to level (or correct position to your kite) it should work.
Tzwengali wrote: turns out the kites does not fly properly at all (nose collapsing).

I noticed that that the leading edge of the kite is dented in (like you would expect with a closed nose valve), but the nose valve is open and this effect is pronounced towards the wings of the foil.
Front (nose) collapse tells kite flies too much on A's, meaning A line row is too short or tight. But you have also signs of underinflation, which happens because your kite is not air tight any more. Unfortunately these two have common issues (making solving them more difficult) and latter is also hard to fix because it is structural problem of the seams and fabric of the kite.

I guess you should first check and correct the bridle and mixer according to the line plan (which has correct values). Then observe how it affects and decide if something should be done to kite itself. If kite doesn't have enough internal pressure it won't fly properly no matter how much bridle/mixer adjusting you do.
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lightandfrost
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Re: Flysurfer Speed3 15m Sparepart Line length

Postby lightandfrost » Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:14 am

The Speed III has several problems that must be worked thru .

L&F own the Speed III 21 meter and 15 meter

If you own the thin fabric version several basic design problems might be in play. When this kite was made they were going over to thinner fabric. The straps inside the kite were designed for the heavier fabric. The thin fabric did not have the strength and more stress was put on the internal straps which began stretching and/or breaking.

Put your hand inside the kite thru the leading edge vents and see if all the straps are still connected. L&F has seen up to 10 of these straps broken on one kite brought to us for tuning. The kite was returned to the factory and repaired by the owner.

In some cases the straps were still intact but the basic kite profile had been stretched. In this one case seen, the entire line system was replaced with new factory lines installed by the owner but the kite still did not fly.

All the kite lines on this model slowly shrink over time. You should restore the lengths of all the lines to the factory settings by using larkshead extensions. The lineplan is available thru flysurf as a download. L&F uses 100lb dacron fishing line for the thin lines and heavier line for the branch lines.

When measuring the lines use a cloth measuring tape used in sewing not a metal measuring tape.

When cutting the larks head extension double, the length and add 7cm for the knot. For example if the line has shrunk 10cm, cut a 27cm lenth and adjust the knot on the larkshead so the length is 10 cm. In thicker guage line use an extra 10cm for the knot.

Any questions just ask.
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Tzwengali (Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:05 am)
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Tzwengali
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Local Beach: Miramar, Panjim, Goa, India
Style: hydrofoiling and wave
Gear: FS Speed2 15m Ozone Edge 13m, Slingshot Wave 12m, FS Psycho IV 10m, Ozone Instinct 9m
Takoon, Airush Sector, Liquid Force Happy Foil
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Re: Flysurfer Speed3 15m Sparepart Line length

Postby Tzwengali » Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:05 am

lightandfrost wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:14 am
The Speed III has several problems that must be worked thru .
Thank you very much for taking the time to respond and sharing your knowledge!

Yes, it is indeed the light fabric version and it has been used heavily here under the tropical sun. Probably time to get a new kite, but I would like to keep this one at least for some mountainboarding, so will try to get it set-up properly again, following your tips.

Best,
Sven

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Re: Flysurfer Speed3 15m Sparepart Line length

Postby foilholio » Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:51 pm

You didn't need to replace the pulley lines to correct for shrink. The pulley line shrink is a lot but not unreal. The A Z main lengths shrink is not of real importance, line lengths are all a matter of relativeness to each other. Your kite has become unstable because you have changed the profile and increased the depower, by the mixer test and changing the pulley lines to longer ones. You won't fix the denting unless you recoat the fabric.

What I suggest you do is set the depower or limit for B from A to 25-27cm and the mixer level and then extend Z 10cm. Then further adjust Z until you are happier with the kite. Then if that is not enough move on to adjusting bridles or more. I have written much about all this stuff, try searching.
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Tzwengali
Rare Poster
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue May 30, 2017 7:38 am
Kiting since: 2002
Local Beach: Miramar, Panjim, Goa, India
Style: hydrofoiling and wave
Gear: FS Speed2 15m Ozone Edge 13m, Slingshot Wave 12m, FS Psycho IV 10m, Ozone Instinct 9m
Takoon, Airush Sector, Liquid Force Happy Foil
Brand Affiliation: www.chickenloop.com
Has thanked: 3 times
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Re: Flysurfer Speed3 15m Sparepart Line length

Postby Tzwengali » Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:42 pm

foilholio wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:51 pm
. You won't fix the denting unless you recoat the fabric.
Can you recommend any product? For a 30sqm I guess I will need a hell of a lot. But at the same time don't want to add too much weight.

Will also search post, as you have probably written about it before.

Thanks !
Sven

foilholio
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Re: Flysurfer Speed3 15m Sparepart Line length

Postby foilholio » Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:40 pm

Goop or goo in Toluene.
viewtopic.php?f=197&t=2392469


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