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My foil kite seems to fly too far overhead lately

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57palawandan
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My foil kite seems to fly too far overhead lately

Postby 57palawandan » Sun Nov 24, 2019 6:18 pm

Could it be the bar?
I am using a ozone bar with 25m lines.
Are the center lines too short to cause this problem?
Or does the mixer need adjusting?
The ozone bar is an older bar 2017 and the depower is very small.
Is there a way to change out the depower line and increase the depower range like the ozone race bar?
I am fairly new to foil kites so any info would be much appreciated.

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Re: My foil kite seems to fly too far overhead lately

Postby collider » Sun Nov 24, 2019 6:38 pm

Best to try mixer test and make sure your lines on your bar are all even.

Separate issue: The depower rope is easy to swap on the megatron QR, I switched mine with an extra long length, set the cleat/throw to my arm length, and right now have a long end flapping around to grab. I also don't like the PU cover, but even if you take it off, the line will be too short for this customization. Although you could maybe splice in a length of less expensive rope, I'm keeping mine around to do that when this one wears out. Looks like you're in SPI, go grab a hunk of line from kiteboarding.com and give it a shot.

Anyway, once you have the mixer properly set, if it's still overflying there is plenty of info here on how to adjust.
What kite?
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jakemoore
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Re: My foil kite seems to fly too far overhead lately

Postby jakemoore » Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:01 pm

Is it collapsing or are you just amazed that it seems like it’s behind you?

What kind of kite?

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Re: My foil kite seems to fly too far overhead lately

Postby Jyoder » Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:14 pm

1. Do you mean the kite is flying far enough overhead that it front tucks and collapses?
2. Or just that it is far overhead but stays in the air and makes your neck sore looking at it?
3. It could be you’re just getting better at letting the kite fly free without oversheeting and need to adjust your technique.

1 is bad and could be mixer, or just light wind conditions with lulls. High aspect foil kites will overfly in light wind because a gust will start them surging toward the edge of the window and then their inertia will carry them in a lull past the point of no return and collapse.

2 is normal and you can sheet in or pull the ohshit strap to backstall it back farther in the window, but you need to learn to fly it with it far over your head, as backstalling will be followed by a surge toward edge of window if you’re not very skilled. If the wind is strong enough to be uncomfortable sheeting in hard with kite overhead due to lofting, but still light enough to make static flying at 10:00 or 2:00 uncomfortable due to tip tuck, You can also aggressively turn the kite from 11:00to 1:00 and back and forth repeatedly with bar sheeted as much as is comfortable to help them backstall and avoid overflying. Shortening your steering lines or lengthening your front lines will make sheeting in more effective at moving kite back in window but compromises Depower. If you use a bar with a long sheeting range and/or a long trim line, like race foilkite bars, then you can have good backstall authority when on the beach and then comfortable depower on the water.

If it’s a race kite, get comfortable with hard sheeting to stall and turning so that a tip tucks and the kite helicopters, and how to recover—not so much for riding but for waterstart prep and handling in gusty winds.

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Re: My foil kite seems to fly too far overhead lately

Postby Trent hink » Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:56 pm

Some good answers here. Having just recently gotten a flysurfer soul 8, i'm amazed at how much i have to crane my neck to view the kite when parked overhead.

The old flysurfers i used up until 2008 were the same way, i just forgot how close they get to edge of the window compared to tube kites.

If the kite is overflying and collapsing, then that is another matter... You did not mention which kite you have?

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Re: My foil kite seems to fly too far overhead lately

Postby Skywalker7 » Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:56 am

57palawandan wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 6:18 pm
Could it be the bar?
I am using a ozone bar with 25m lines.
Are the center lines too short to cause this problem?
Or does the mixer need adjusting?
The ozone bar is an older bar 2017 and the depower is very small.
Is there a way to change out the depower line and increase the depower range like the ozone race bar?
I am fairly new to foil kites so any info would be much appreciated.
Yes, this could be a reason. First I would check the line lenghts of the bar. Most foil kites designed to fly well an equal lines and you should be able to set this on your bar. If you fly in a gusty winds you might want to try make setting your bar the way that the control lines are 2-4 cm shorter so you can brake more your foil kite (flying far overhead). I do have an older Ozone bar and on my bar I can set the lenght of the depower rope, and if you make it 5-6 cm longer that you make the control lines relatively shorter. So you should check your bar and by changing a knot on the depower rope try to make the depower rope longer and by doing this making the lines equal or the control lines shorter by 2-3 cm. I guess it solve the problem. If this is checked (and if it is not the proble)then you should ask somebody to fix the mixers.

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Re: My foil kite seems to fly too far overhead lately

Postby foilholio » Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:40 pm

So the reason a foil kite overflys is because it reduces its AoA. It will mainly do this because of the line ratios, how you have the bar/trim positioned. It can also do it because of camber. The bar is the main issue, foil kites can need you to sheet in to restrain them. Overflying is part of the reason they have such high performance. If you want to increase the minimum AoA, you have the bar, trimmer or altering line lengths another way, you can reduce the travel of either pulley with a stopper knot or you can reduce the length of B but you will need to also reduce C and Z in ratio to maintain the profile. If you want to make the camber so it won't overfly as easy or is easier to control depowered, then start by lengthening Z.

57palawandan
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Re: My foil kite seems to fly too far overhead lately

Postby 57palawandan » Tue Nov 26, 2019 5:15 pm

jakemoore wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:01 pm
Is it collapsing or are you just amazed that it seems like it’s behind you?

What kind of kite?
It's not collapsing, just seems like it wants to overshoot me.
Not a good feeling when I am standing close to shore with a lots of kites laying all around.
It's a 11m race kite.
Didn't seems to do this with the 9m race kite.

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Re: My foil kite seems to fly too far overhead lately

Postby Herman » Tue Nov 26, 2019 5:51 pm

57palawandan

I found it interesting that you did not mention where the trim strap was when you described the overshooting feeling. Trim makes a big difference to foils but it takes a bit of practice to get your head round it after years of lei. For instance if you are "depowering" when you get back to the beach the kite may well feel like it wants to overshoot and it will also be harder to backstall down. But it will feel strange to trim all the way out just before landing if you are in lei mindset. Trim will even effect how the kite sits on the beach and how easily it launches.

It would be sensible to do the line and bridle checks but I would highly recommend playing with trim to develope the awareness of how it effects handling foil kites! The differences are subtle but quite important imho. I recall having similar feelings to those which you have described before I suddenly became foil trim aware, it was a bit of a eurika moment for me.

Modifying bars is fairly easy once you have learnt to splice dyneema, increasing trim available is relatively easy on this type of bar.

Regards Herman
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Herman
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Re: My foil kite seems to fly too far overhead lately

Postby Herman » Tue Nov 26, 2019 7:38 pm

57palawadan

Just a further thought. I learnt many years ago on C kites that were prone to Hindenburg and so had a bit of a phobia about letting the kite get to far over head. However it is a good thing to get comfortable with the kite flying (not necessarily sitting) through this overhead position as it makes things like toe to heel tacks and other upwind manoeuvres easier.

Regards Herman
Last edited by Herman on Tue Nov 26, 2019 11:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.


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