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Peak 4 11/13 vs Gin Marabou 12m has anyone experienced them both?

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tomtom
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Re: Peak 4 11/13 vs Gin Marabou 12m has anyone experienced them both?

Postby tomtom » Tue Feb 04, 2020 8:29 pm

6 knot on 8m Peak is just bullshit. /unless 2500 cm2 sup wing, 100l board, pumping start and Kay Lenny skills/

Im probably second person after Horst who start riding Peaks on water - i have 3 Peaks. I wrote probably most Peak praising posts on this forum.
But telling people that Peak is good light wind kite is not true if not lie. It somehow works. Somehow works is not good.
This is my last post about Peak light wind abilities - believe whatever you want

tomtom
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Re: Peak 4 11/13 vs Gin Marabou 12m has anyone experienced them both?

Postby tomtom » Tue Feb 04, 2020 8:36 pm

Laughingman wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 8:16 pm
Okay so I just spent some time in Cuba, we had very light winds, much lighter then normal, you can usually expect 10 - 14 knots daily but this was more like 4 - 8 knots daily

Anyhow, this somewhat new foiler with a Moses 633 was able to get himself going with a 13m Hyperlink. When the wind was starting to blow in the 6 knot range. It was not pretty but it was more then I could do with my setup.

Which brings me hear to finding that kite that will get me out on those super light days, Maybe the single skins are not the right kites?
I am using the 22" Cloud9 wing, so its a small surf wing
Best less than 10 knots kites are medium aspect closed cell foils in ultralight version,
Ozone chrono, Ozone hyperlink, Concept air Pulsion, Kitech FRS, Flysurfer Soul /i personaly dont like it but many do/, Maybe Peter Lynn Nova and others.
Size depends on weight and wing size. Usually 13 - 9 m. For 6knts and less much bigger size is needed 15m and up. 6 knots have 4x less power than 12. So you need 4x more lift from kite. This usually means 3x more surface - deeper profile and much better L/D.

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Re: Peak 4 11/13 vs Gin Marabou 12m has anyone experienced them both?

Postby norcom » Tue Feb 04, 2020 9:51 pm

Peaks are my light wind kites. Started with the Peak3 in 2017/2018? Mostly because of the below video and the kite price after the 17m R1v1 didn't live up to it's promises.

I have the Peak4 11m (also had the Peak3 12m). The Peak4 11m is SLOW. It's a little faster than the Peak3 12m but a little less grunt. On super light days the 11m will stall/fold before I can get it back up. If you want to have fun get the Peak4 8m. Much faster and keeps its shape much better drifting. In ultra-light wind the speed increase with the 8m works more to my advantage than the slight grunt of the 11m. I don't even bring the 11m with me anymore just the 4/5/8m.


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Re: Peak 4 11/13 vs Gin Marabou 12m has anyone experienced them both?

Postby a99 » Tue Feb 04, 2020 10:27 pm

So, seeems as Horst and Tomtom very declaring that Peaks are not good light wind kites and Norcom and Drsurf stating that Peaks are really good LW kites (at least 8m). So, where is real thrue :)?

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Re: Peak 4 11/13 vs Gin Marabou 12m has anyone experienced them both?

Postby Tomlutz » Tue Feb 04, 2020 10:54 pm

a99 wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 10:27 pm
So, seeems as Horst and Tomtom very declaring that Peaks are not good light wind kites and Norcom and Drsurf stating that Peaks are really good LW kites (at least 8m). So, where is real thrue :)?
Imho single skins are simply not designed to be good at light wind kiting. I have tested a Marabou and found that my Soul stayed better in the air and had more grunt.

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Re: Peak 4 11/13 vs Gin Marabou 12m has anyone experienced them both?

Postby tomtom » Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:19 pm

A99 - try them and make your own mind

a99
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Re: Peak 4 11/13 vs Gin Marabou 12m has anyone experienced them both?

Postby a99 » Wed Feb 05, 2020 12:18 am

Yes, i definitely will try it this spring with foil. I collecting info which size to buy for me 8 or 5m.

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Re: Peak 4 11/13 vs Gin Marabou 12m has anyone experienced them both?

Postby Trent hink » Wed Feb 05, 2020 6:46 am

I agree. At around 82kg I doubt I'm riding in anything less than 9 knots with my 8m peak. I probablly need 10 knots to be moderately comfortable. I am using 20m lines lately.

5m peak I'm pretty sure I can ride in 12 knots but at that point I feel a bit underpowered.

The foil makes some difference, mine is slow. Board makes a difference, mine is small. Your weight makes a big difference. Skill, even though I have been kiting for 20 years I only have about 1 year experience on a foil board.

Never forget that wind power is proportional to velocity squared. On the low end, a slight decrease in wind speed means way less power available.

In my opinion and based on my experience, light wind braggers have been fudging numbers pretty much since the birth of this sport.

Sometimes the wind is a funny thing, one of my friends once claimed I was riding in 7 knots.

At ground level where he was measuring it, maybe. But up where my kite was I could feel it was at least 9, probably 10 or more. When you get to the extremes (low or high wind), perception is not always reality, unless you have a calibrated real-time sensor, right in your vicinity, AND mounted at kite level.


tomtom wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 8:29 pm
6 knot on 8m Peak is just bullshit. /unless 2500 cm2 sup wing, 100l board, pumping start and Kay Lenny skills/

Im probably second person after Horst who start riding Peaks on water - i have 3 Peaks. I wrote probably most Peak praising posts on this forum.
But telling people that Peak is good light wind kite is not true if not lie. It somehow works. Somehow works is not good.
This is my last post about Peak light wind abilities - believe whatever you want

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Re: Peak 4 11/13 vs Gin Marabou 12m has anyone experienced them both?

Postby drsurf » Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:32 pm

a99 wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 10:27 pm
So, seeems as Horst and Tomtom very declaring that Peaks are not good light wind kites and Norcom and Drsurf stating that Peaks are really good LW kites (at least 8m). So, where is real thrue :)?
OK, I managed to get my partner to shoot some very ordinary video of me on the 5m Peak4 in 4 to 9 knots. See
I really need to find someone who can video kitesurfing around here. A drone would be good but there are military airspace restrictions where we kite :(

So as you can see in the video the wind is quite light. If you look at the beginning where the windmeter is being held, you'll see in the distance, lower right just above the hand, a Peak4 5m kite flying while the reading is taking place. The guy on this kite weighs approx 85kg and is comfortably foiling on a Naish Large foil in this light wind. The rest of the video is myself at 65kg on an Axis 110cm Tray board and Moses 679 (990 sq cm) foil.

Now there can be arguments as to whether the wind is stronger higher up or offshore. In my experience on this day I tried to go as close to the shore as the foil and swimmers in the water would allow and only went out about 100m and the wind varied very little. Likewise flying the kite high or low didn't show much difference in the wind speed.
There are many variables with regard to wind quality as well. Some say a colder wind has more power. In this video it was a warm day approx 28°C with a water temp. of approx 24°C. However the wind is a seabreeze which is generated both by the position of a high pressure system offshore and the heat of the land mass behind the shore sucking in cooler ocean air. These seabreezes are consistent and don't have lulls of no wind. The wind is cross onshore with a long fetch, so there are no obstacles to make the wind turbulent. So it's a good location with good steady wind. Probably the best quality wind on the east coast of Australia.

I find that if the kite can lift me out of the water then I'll be up on the foil with a couple of sines of the kite. I don't think you need a huge wing, just big enough for the wind of the day. I have dropped the size of my front wing temporarily from 1250 sq cm to 990 sq cm and the effect on getting up and foiling was insignificant. (Moses wings are very efficient). However I could fly the larger foil a couple of knots less in speed on the water before it stopped foiling.
And small kites, especially Peak4's are fun. Even if the wind did drop to virtually nothing you can still fly them and drag back to shore. Something which would not be possible with an LEI kite or comparable twin skin kites.

One caveat in all this discussion. One or two knots difference in light wind can be the difference between foiling and flailing around in the water. Under 10 knots every knot matters and consistency is king. A one or two knot additional gust may be what gets you out of the water and onto the foil where apparent wind takes over. I also have an 8m Peak4 which comes out when the gusts barely reach 8 knots. Even though the 8m only adds 2-4 knots to the bottom end of your range there are enough days where this is the difference between getting up on the foil or not. It's been said that the Peak4 kites are not so much a light wind kite but are the best kites in light wind! Get you head around that :D
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easyfly51
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Re: Peak 4 11/13 vs Gin Marabou 12m has anyone experienced them both?

Postby easyfly51 » Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:43 pm



Found this Ozone Explore 12m in 6 knots maybe! never seen explore on water yet.
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