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Sonic/Soul/Peak - 8 and 6 knots lightwind foiling

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derek440
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Re: Sonic/Soul/Peak - 8 and 6 knots lightwind foiling

Postby derek440 » Thu Apr 23, 2020 3:55 am

Yeah being heavier makes it harder below 10kn but still possible with the right gear and technique. I found peak4 8m was barely enough in 10kn, for my 100kg I should probably go bigger if using as a light wind kite. With my 17m R1 I can water start my race foil on a big board in about 8kn easily, below that I can water start down to 6kn on one side and the other side I can't get going until 8kn, so there is definitely a skill factor. Also I can only gybe really well in one direction so I can't do my good water start and then gybe that side! The struggle is real. I have a Pansh A15 - 15m arriving in a week (second hand) so I am hoping with that on long lines I can get down to 6kn, which has so far been elusive. If I could afford it I'd probably get a big sonic3 - 18m. As a side point I can ride my 13m R1 down to about 9kn then it gets tricky to water start, again not helped by weight, but I'm pretty sure more kites is a better option than dieting!

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Re: Sonic/Soul/Peak - 8 and 6 knots lightwind foiling

Postby Nem0 » Thu Apr 23, 2020 3:01 pm

derek440 wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 3:55 am
Yeah being heavier makes it harder below 10kn but still possible with the right gear and technique. I found peak4 8m was barely enough in 10kn, for my 100kg I should probably go bigger if using as a light wind kite. With my 17m R1 I can water start my race foil on a big board in about 8kn easily, below that I can water start down to 6kn on one side and the other side I can't get going until 8kn, so there is definitely a skill factor. Also I can only gybe really well in one direction so I can't do my good water start and then gybe that side! The struggle is real. I have a Pansh A15 - 15m arriving in a week (second hand) so I am hoping with that on long lines I can get down to 6kn, which has so far been elusive. If I could afford it I'd probably get a big sonic3 - 18m. As a side point I can ride my 13m R1 down to about 9kn then it gets tricky to water start, again not helped by weight, but I'm pretty sure more kites is a better option than dieting!
Why 15m A15 should go lower than 17m R1 ???
I love my 18m Sonic3 😍

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Re: Sonic/Soul/Peak - 8 and 6 knots lightwind foiling

Postby Trent hink » Thu Apr 23, 2020 7:10 pm

F-Bear, i can't really comment on the larger sizes, but for hydrofoiling with the 4 and 5 meter, the kite behaves uniquely when very overpowered. If you are just overpowered, the kite flaps a lot. It flaps more when you are moderately overpowered.

What happens with the 4 and 5, is if you are totally overpowered and trim/ sheet out all the way, the leading edge can fold in and the kite will sort of collapse legnthwise until you sheet it in for more power.

On the 4 and 5 meter, this all felt very contolable and safe, except that when i sheeted in to get the kite back into shape, the kite just had more pull than i could control with a hydrofoil.

I have had the 5 out with a short wide surfboard in higher winds, and the behivor i described goes away completely as long as you can operate the kite at higher power. The 4 appeared to behave the same way when i was bodydraging back to my hydrofoil in high winds.

5-20? It sounds like very bad contitions, but if the wind is more up and down, rather than gusty and turbulent, it might be ok. Like i said though, even though i own 4-11 sizes, i have only had this experience with the 4 and 5, so don't expect the larger sizes to behave so nicely.

In higher winds, i always rig smaller and plan to wait out the lulls if needed.

F-Bear wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 7:54 pm
Kitedougiefresh and others - could you comment on the high end? that is, us inland dwellers do not get steady wind so if I have say a 13m Peak out in say 5G20 wind, will I regret it? Trying to understand what kite will best survive (keep flying) in the lulls yet not become a liability in a gust. This may not make sense to folk used to coastal winds, but around here you can quickly get into trouble if your kite is to big. Yet your session is pointless if kite can't get you up and riding.

Sounds like I should go on a diet, and improve the low end ! Currently at around 93 kg, and the stay-at-home thing is not helping.

FB
Last edited by Trent hink on Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sonic/Soul/Peak - 8 and 6 knots lightwind foiling

Postby Skywalker7 » Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:36 pm

derek440 wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 3:55 am
Yeah being heavier makes it harder below 10kn but still possible with the right gear and technique. I found peak4 8m was barely enough in 10kn, for my 100kg I should probably go bigger if using as a light wind kite. With my 17m R1 I can water start my race foil on a big board in about 8kn easily, below that I can water start down to 6kn on one side and the other side I can't get going until 8kn, so there is definitely a skill factor. Also I can only gybe really well in one direction so I can't do my good water start and then gybe that side! The struggle is real. I have a Pansh A15 - 15m arriving in a week (second hand) so I am hoping with that on long lines I can get down to 6kn, which has so far been elusive. If I could afford it I'd probably get a big sonic3 - 18m. As a side point I can ride my 13m R1 down to about 9kn then it gets tricky to water start, again not helped by weight, but I'm pretty sure more kites is a better option than dieting!
I am 95 kg and the Soul 15 on 23 meter lines definitely starts me on a Moses 590 in 6 knots. For 5-9 knots I would go for the Soul 15 not the Sonic. The Sonic 3 is awesome kite but since the faster profile it is slightly more demanding to handle. With the right experience on faster race foil obviously the Sonic 3 is the choice.

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Re: Sonic/Soul/Peak - 8 and 6 knots lightwind foiling

Postby derek440 » Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:44 pm

This reply above answers the question about why I would think an A15 can go lower than an R1, the answer is to do with AR and stability and line lengths and skills. With the R1 when it comes through the power window it pulls super hard but its so fast that it doesn't pull for long so you must have very good technique to get up on the foil and start generating apparent wind, this often involves a downloop or two, often whilst pumping the hyrdrofoil. Part of the reason for that is that you must run short lines on an R1 for it to fly nicely, for 17m race kite you want about 17m lines max (the reason you need short lines is to manage the high AR kite). With a more stable kite you can run much longer lines and get a much longer and easier power stroke and they are easier to loop through the power in light wind without stalling, tip folding, touching water etc. The thing with the Sonic3 is it actually gives you the best of both these worlds in a way as it is high AR, super fast and powerful, fast turning and easy to loop! The only problem for me is the cost. I am just wondering if an 18m A15 (UL) would get me out in the same wind a Sonic3 does for much less money. And while I was wondering, a 15m came up for sale for $250USD in my country so I bought it to find out. I will write another comment when the kite arrives and I get to try it on 25m lines in 6-8 knots.

At my local spot yesterday we had 4-7 knots yesterday afternoon. My wife went out on our R1v2 17m with 17m lines (it was my turn to mind our toddler on the beach) and got going but dropped tacks due to lack of lift and then ended up swimming back, as did a few other kiters. Two of our top local racers went out on 21m R1v3's near dusk when it was about 4-5 knots and both got going and put in a full session with some careful tacking and gybing and one of them got back in before putting the kite in the water. It was pretty cool to watch, the wind was so light that people had to help inflate their kites and they had to run upwind to launch. There was also some repeated looping and super hard pumping of the race foils to get going (both on Mike's Lab foils) and to tack and the gybes required near perfect technique.

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Re: Sonic/Soul/Peak - 8 and 6 knots lightwind foiling

Postby derek440 » Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:58 pm

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Re: Sonic/Soul/Peak - 8 and 6 knots lightwind foiling

Postby F-Bear » Fri Apr 24, 2020 4:15 pm

Trent Hink - Thank you, that is very good information. I have a 5m Peak, but have not witnessed this longwise 'taco' behavior yet. Interesting for sure. And yes, our winds are very annoying. Today the forecast says 3G14 knots, saturday is 9G31, sunday is 3G14. Typical stuff, which is why it is important to me to understand the high end of a kite. And for sure why I love the Peak so much, it has no problems so far. Amazing how well it deals with our winds. If you do gain insights as to how well the 8m and 11m handle gusts and their high end, please share ! Am hoping they make next years Peak 8m in orange (instead of blue) since that is probably what kite I'll buy next.

FB

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Re: Sonic/Soul/Peak - 8 and 6 knots lightwind foiling

Postby jakemoore » Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:05 pm

derek440 wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:44 pm
And while I was wondering, a 15m came up for sale for $250USD in my country so I bought it to find out. I will write another comment when the kite arrives and I get to try it on 25m lines in 6-8 knots.
You really owe it to yourself to try the race kite on longer lines if you are underpowered.

With short lines the race kite as any kite will demonstrate more reactive steering, higher L/D, and faster to the edge of the wind window. Thus with shorter lines it is easier to hold down a bigger more powerful kite in the same winds achieving better speed and angles up and down wind.

Longer lines won't help the race kite win races as much as a bigger kite. But if you are underpowered and trying to get up on the hydrofoil to enjoy riding in light winds I bet you will be pleasantly surprised.
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derek440
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Re: Sonic/Soul/Peak - 8 and 6 knots lightwind foiling

Postby derek440 » Sat Apr 25, 2020 4:16 am

jakemoore wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:05 pm
derek440 wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:44 pm
And while I was wondering, a 15m came up for sale for $250USD in my country so I bought it to find out. I will write another comment when the kite arrives and I get to try it on 25m lines in 6-8 knots.
You really owe it to yourself to try the race kite on longer lines if you are underpowered.

With short lines the race kite as any kite will demonstrate more reactive steering, higher L/D, and faster to the edge of the wind window. Thus with shorter lines it is easier to hold down a bigger more powerful kite in the same winds achieving better speed and angles up and down wind.

Longer lines won't help the race kite win races as much as a bigger kite. But if you are underpowered and trying to get up on the hydrofoil to enjoy riding in light winds I bet you will be pleasantly surprised.
This is great advice and I was thinking the same thing. So yesterday I went out in about 5-8kn and put on extensions to make my lines approx 19m total and it was way easier to water start with a downloop. I also made a couple of super light wind gybes in about 5kn, I'll post a video for info, but yeah the longer lines did help. But I still end up with the kite in the water for a while but I think it went down to about 2kn. I might try a little bit longer next time it is below 8kn but I am thinking maybe the 17m R1 will be enough with the longer lines and my bigger foil which I used yesterday. Ultimately I will need a 21m race kite but I may need a mortgage for that.

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Re: Sonic/Soul/Peak - 8 and 6 knots lightwind foiling

Postby derek440 » Sat Apr 25, 2020 4:26 am




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