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Pansh 12m A15 ultralight with Jackomixer wow

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PullStrings
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Re: Pansh 12m A15 ultralight with Jackomixer wow

Postby PullStrings » Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:00 pm

kitexpert wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 3:33 pm
sheehan wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 10:37 pm
Another option for the A15 if someone wanted to try, is to disconnect the Z bridles and instead use C as Z and run a 2to1 mixer. Reasoning is the flysurfer race and VMG has similar Z position as A15 C. You could likely do some transitioning from C to Z at the tip too.

Though from rough measuring cord positions of 81% Z on Vmg vs 70% C on A15 seems like C alone might not relaunch on the A15.
That is natural conclusion from FS race kite bridles but I don't think it would support low AR wing well enough. Actually it is a bit wonder 70% brakes is possible even in race kites, there is still quite long area near TE without bridle support. Compared to some other race kites which have "over pulled" TE with a diablo line mixer it is very different construction.
Doubt he will respond
Got 3 strikes
Say :bye: to foilholio/kiteykitekite/sheehan

kitexpert
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Re: Pansh 12m A15 ultralight with Jackomixer wow

Postby kitexpert » Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:38 am

PullStrings wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:00 pm
kitexpert wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 3:33 pm
sheehan wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 10:37 pm
Another option for the A15 if someone wanted to try, is to disconnect the Z bridles and instead use C as Z and run a 2to1 mixer. Reasoning is the flysurfer race and VMG has similar Z position as A15 C. You could likely do some transitioning from C to Z at the tip too.

Though from rough measuring cord positions of 81% Z on Vmg vs 70% C on A15 seems like C alone might not relaunch on the A15.
That is natural conclusion from FS race kite bridles but I don't think it would support low AR wing well enough. Actually it is a bit wonder 70% brakes is possible even in race kites, there is still quite long area near TE without bridle support. Compared to some other race kites which have "over pulled" TE with a diablo line mixer it is very different construction.
Doubt he will respond
Got 3 strikes
Say :bye: to foilholio/kiteykitekite/sheehan
Cats have seven lives, or was it nine? :)

S2000kitesurfer
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Re: Pansh 12m A15 ultralight with Jackomixer wow

Postby S2000kitesurfer » Thu Apr 16, 2020 10:28 pm

Kiter_from_Germany wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 8:44 pm
Just my 50ct.

For me no mixer makes sense on the water, where front (A) or back lines (Z) are not connected directly to their connection point.

Reason:
If Backtip not connected directly to Z, kite will not be able to start reverse
If front tip not connected directly to A, dangerous flip overs may happen.

Use 2:1 bar Instead
... or shorten Z until not so loose, if you want to do a looooot of tweaking...
So it doesn't reverse launch lol this video must be sorcery then 🤣.


hongchew
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Re: Pansh 12m A15 ultralight with Jackomixer wow

Postby hongchew » Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:05 am

S2000kitesurfer wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 10:28 pm
Kiter_from_Germany wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 8:44 pm
Just my 50ct.

For me no mixer makes sense on the water, where front (A) or back lines (Z) are not connected directly to their connection point.

Reason:
If Backtip not connected directly to Z, kite will not be able to start reverse
If front tip not connected directly to A, dangerous flip overs may happen.

Use 2:1 bar Instead
... or shorten Z until not so loose, if you want to do a looooot of tweaking...
So it doesn't reverse launch lol this video must be sorcery then 🤣.

Well if the fact doesn't fit the narrative, the fact must yield, ha-ha. :baby:

Kiter_from_Germany
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Re: Pansh 12m A15 ultralight with Jackomixer wow

Postby Kiter_from_Germany » Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:18 am

S2000kitesurfer wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 10:28 pm
Kiter_from_Germany wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 8:44 pm
Just my 50ct.

For me no mixer makes sense on the water, where front (A) or back lines (Z) are not connected directly to their connection point.

Reason:
If Backtip not connected directly to Z, kite will not be able to start reverse
If front tip not connected directly to A, dangerous flip overs may happen.

Use 2:1 bar Instead
... or shorten Z until not so loose, if you want to do a looooot of tweaking...
So it doesn't reverse launch lol this video must be sorcery then 🤣.

very nice vids - looking for gong pro also... :D

Reverse launch I see is done with genesis - but did you tweaked it with jackomixer, or so?
Im asking because I did a loooot of tweaking with A15 myself and never had succsess reverse starting with a geared Z (Malabar, Jacko or so.)
On A15 you did some vids with jacko - but no reverse launch documented.

What do I mean with 'geard':
'Geared' I mean where Z is engauged via a pully, when backline is connected to C...

Reverse launch always work on al A15s I own (9m,12m, 18m) when mixer is standard (backline connected directly to Z, for example in standard mixer setup) of course.
Could you reconfirm that genesis shown in the vid is reverse starting WITH jacko?
This would be great news, you should document in vid subtitel...

Kiter_from_Germany
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Re: Pansh 12m A15 ultralight with Jackomixer wow

Postby Kiter_from_Germany » Fri Apr 17, 2020 9:19 am

Kiter_from_Germany wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:18 am
S2000kitesurfer wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 10:28 pm
Kiter_from_Germany wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 8:44 pm
Just my 50ct.

For me no mixer makes sense on the water, where front (A) or back lines (Z) are not connected directly to their connection point.

Reason:
If Backtip not connected directly to Z, kite will not be able to start reverse
If front tip not connected directly to A, dangerous flip overs may happen.

Use 2:1 bar Instead
... or shorten Z until not so loose, if you want to do a looooot of tweaking...
So it doesn't reverse launch lol this video must be sorcery then 🤣.

very nice vids - looking for gong pro also... :D

Reverse launch I see is done with genesis - but had you tweaked that with jackomixer, already?
Im asking because I did a loooot of tweaking with A15 myself and never had succsess reverse starting - at least my 18m A15 - with a geared Z (Malabar, Jacko and so.)
Btw: On A15 I found you did some vids with jacko - but no reverse launch documented there.

Just to explain - What do I mean with 'geard':
'Geared' I mean where Z is engauged via a pulley, when backline is connected to C... So jacko has a geared Z.

Reverse launch always work on all A15s I own (9m,12m, 18m) when mixer is standard (backline connected directly to Z) no problem in standard design, of course.

Could you reconfirm that genesis shown in the vid is reverse starting WITH jacko tweak?
This would be great news, you should document in vid subtitle...

Tomlutz
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Re: Pansh 12m A15 ultralight with Jackomixer wow

Postby Tomlutz » Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:01 am

Kiter_from_Germany wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:18 am

Reverse launch always work on al A15s I own (9m,12m, 18m) when mixer is standard (backline connected directly to Z, for example in standard mixer setup) of course.
...
I have the A15 in 15m, and currently testing the Jacov Mixer. I have managed to lift the kite in reverse mode, but then failed to rotate it in order to launch. I got the impression that reverse launch is still possible, however more difficult. The reason I failed was rather lack of wind and/or lack of skill. I plan to do more testing this week-end.

S2000kitesurfer
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Re: Pansh 12m A15 ultralight with Jackomixer wow

Postby S2000kitesurfer » Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:59 pm

Kiter_from_Germany wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:18 am
S2000kitesurfer wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 10:28 pm
Kiter_from_Germany wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 8:44 pm
Just my 50ct.

For me no mixer makes sense on the water, where front (A) or back lines (Z) are not connected directly to their connection point.

Reason:
If Backtip not connected directly to Z, kite will not be able to start reverse
If front tip not connected directly to A, dangerous flip overs may happen.

Use 2:1 bar Instead
... or shorten Z until not so loose, if you want to do a looooot of tweaking...
So it doesn't reverse launch lol this video must be sorcery then 🤣.

very nice vids - looking for gong pro also... :D

Reverse launch I see is done with genesis - but did you tweaked it with jackomixer, or so?
Im asking because I did a loooot of tweaking with A15 myself and never had succsess reverse starting with a geared Z (Malabar, Jacko or so.)
On A15 you did some vids with jacko - but no reverse launch documented.

What do I mean with 'geard':
'Geared' I mean where Z is engauged via a pully, when backline is connected to C...

Reverse launch always work on al A15s I own (9m,12m, 18m) when mixer is standard (backline connected directly to Z, for example in standard mixer setup) of course.
Could you reconfirm that genesis shown in the vid is reverse starting WITH jacko?
This would be great news, you should document in vid subtitel...
Yes I can confirm Jackomixer only but on the larger sizes the there is too much tension on Z56 fully sheeted.on the smallest sizes you do not see the effect of the wing tips being over sheeted. This means that the kite will always flip over easy relaunch as in the beginning of this video.

So for the video i had loosened Z56 by 3cm . This meant the kite was actually physically capable of laying leading-edge down. Must admit I was surprised myself with the reverse launch.
When my wife next used the kite on her hydrofoil learning I tightened up Z56 again because it was so great at one steering line launch.
The A15 12m Z8 has been lengthened by 4cm . Because it's the ultralight I would be confident down to 6 knots .
Less than 6 knots everybody's playing the (oops it could go wrong swimming) game.


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