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Soul 2 - what Would you like to see?

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kiteykitekite
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Re: Soul 2 - what Would you like to see?

Postby kiteykitekite » Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:14 am

downunder wrote: Please do not overestimate my experience and underestimate other users who do not want to spend time in here. As I do.
I am not overestimating your experience, I am certain it is much less than me. I do not want to sound superior to you in that regard but I am trying to help you or anyone that might honestly listen.
downunder wrote: The subjective experience is easy to prove, as above. Record that video, measure the time for deflation.
fernmanus wrote: When I read that a couple of you are have no issues with the deflation, it makes me wonder if I am doing something wrong.
I have absolutely no reason to lie to you. I am telling you straight that deflation is not an issue, or more correctly should not be an issue done right.

I often only open one butt flap, because that is all I need to. For the biggest kites though, before you wrap the bar, you secure the kite folded and open both butt flaps or the zipper or what ever. You wind the lines up to the bridles secure them on the bar, usually both ends. Then you tidy the bridles, having them from the bar going neatly in a tight line into the kite. If you wrap a lot of the bridles on the bar this will occur nearer the tips. Like this it prevents tangles the most. If you wrap less of the bridles you can route them out closer to the center where the fold is. This will prevent damage from twists and kinks to the bridles when rolling the kite. Though it does take longer and is more likely to tangle at least till you get some experience with it.

I usually have the bridles going in through the TE which I think works best you can do them into the LE. It is important to have the pulleys out of the kite so you can rinse them. If you wrap the bridles on the bar the pulleys will be on the bar. I often have one set of pulleys on the bar one set off.

Now by the time all that is done given any
fernmanus wrote: Most of the time, I do not have any issues, but in high winds, the slow deflation becomes a problem
amount of wind, particularly a high amount your kite should have mostly or entirely deflated by itself. Now if it is a smaller kite it is more likely to have deflated more vs if it is a big kite. Even if it has not deflated at all it is still very easy to pack up. I usually land into a wind shadow with no wind, I will usually wrap the bar before securing the kite, my smallest kite even has no deflate hole! and I have no issue. You can roll the air out very quickly, well less so with no deflate at all :-) The trick you may be missing is you roll the kite loosely so it is a bigger bundle and quicker to roll. When you get to the say last 1/5 of the kite you roll it tighter to get all the air out and make it smaller. If you have the bundle you roll getting too big you roll it tighter to get the air out. On the biggest kites you can't roll them in one spot or too much air gathers in the bundle. So you alternate rolling the top then the bottom then the middle, etc. It is really kite and situation dependent. You get to know your gear every time you pack up ,and then improve your method. You shouldn't be spending more than 2-3 minutes packing up. I can pack up in about 1 to 2mins. That's from kite flying to kite and bar all wrapped and rolled. I still have to rinse my bar and importantly the pulleys.
fernmanus wrote: The issue is the tangling of the bridles on one end due to the TE flapping up and down.
Ok that is not a deflation issue that is a bridle tangling problem. They are not the same but both relate to packing up. To avoid tangles always launch or land downwind. You can also land into wind shadows downwind or to the side. That stick you can land on the window side many be good too, viewtopic.php?f=197&t=2405848. If someone is help you land you have a problem. They need to get the kite on the ground to reduce the flapping. As usual no one has a clue how to land foil kites even those that have used them... I only self land and self launch, avoiding any problems. That said if someone knows how to land a foil kite, he will grab it, stand or sand one tip, grab the other tip and secure it and open the deflate. The kite should be deflated before you have finished or even started winding your lines! But that is with people who know what they are doing. You have better luck with strangers landing a foil kite.

If you can't land without making tangles, get good an undoing tangles. Personally after undoing a few tangles you may reconsider landing downwind or in a wind shadow. Though you can get very good at undoing tangles, you can also get very good at avoiding them.
fernmanus wrote: The pulleys get tangled and then I have the fun job of unpicking a tangled mess when I get home.
Always try avoid packing a kite tangled. Fix it on the beach then. Also never disconnect the lines for a tangle, you are just asking to make your life hell if you do. In fact you should always leave your bar on a foil kite, not doing so is just a misery. But hey some people are miserable, maybe they like it?
jannik wrote: With the soul I don't dare to do it it other than light winds and I don't kite in light winds. If you collapse the kite it will pivot.
This is weird I don't see any strange bridling on the soul that would prevent it reverse landing. Maybe the high air retention prevents it folding well? Foils kites should not collapse when deep in the window either, they are more stable like any kite there...
tkaraszewski wrote: Maybe Flysurfer can get the new Aluula fabric for the Soul? Cut the weight of the kite in half and make the fabric stiffer?
I think the internal structures in Aluula would be a good start. They could use a fabric 1/3 the weight and still cut way more holes in it.

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Re: Soul 2 - what Would you like to see?

Postby jannik » Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:35 am

kiteykitekite wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:14 am
This is weird I don't see any strange bridling on the soul that would prevent it reverse landing. Maybe the high air retention prevents it folding well? Foils kites should not collapse when deep in the window either, they are more stable like any kite there...
You can reverse land it. I just feel that it has too much power for me to handle in medium to high winds and I feel the kite gets unpredictable when you really commit to the backlines. I don't remember what exactly the Matrixx looked like when it was really over-sheeted (collapsed might be the wrong term) but it was different to what the Soul is doing.

kiteykitekite
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Re: Soul 2 - what Would you like to see?

Postby kiteykitekite » Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:14 am

My only thinking is the internal pressure doesn't allow it to fold as well, so it holds more power. Try backstalling it slower or with the side of the window run upwind method. Otherwise that stick to land on looks good.

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Re: Soul 2 - what Would you like to see?

Postby jakemoore » Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:42 am

fernmanus wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:08 pm
. The issue is the tangling of the bridles on one end due to the TE flapping up and down. If I have someone to help me, two people can get the edge rolled up before the flapping causes a “bridle ball” on one end. I have tried securing the far end and it works on a sandy beach, but on snow it is a no go or on beach’s with no sand.
Here’s a snapshot from the Soul manual.
71B0B904-C067-4226-8A2F-55560DF7C2F6.jpeg
I’m not on Soul but what I am doing is working to the center of the kite and opening the deflate with both wingtips downwind results in less flogging. Then I follow the front to get both tips together and roll enough of the tips to act as a weight. Then I either wrap my bar or detach the lines and neatly roll the bridle in the kite.

To be fair I’m riding pretty underpowered these days.

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Re: Soul 2 - what Would you like to see?

Postby jakemoore » Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:51 am

When deflation is not wanted a slow deflate is much better than fast. Having had a top skin zipper fail in the water, I will forever prefer the Velcro Butthole.

The only system I liked better was the Psyco 2/ Voodoo leading edge zips that also permitted open cell conversion without a weight penalty.

Hyperlink for example could ditch the mesh and ditch the top skin zip. The zip in the valves have much less sand exposure and failure in the water is less of a problem.

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Re: Soul 2 - what Would you like to see?

Postby kiteykitekite » Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:30 am

Yes LE zip is a good idea.

That reverse method is more stable but you can also sand the downwind tip if you lay it normally. I think if you are sanding for any long period just deflate the kite.

I still can't believe you swap bars on kites, especially as a long time foil user. You need different size bars too to get the best from each size...may as well have each kite have their own, especially considering they can be so cheap.

Oh as well for gluing to silicone coated fabric you could try cleaning the spot with gasoline first.


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