Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

Flysurfer Race vs VMG

For all foil kite riders
Jyoder
Frequent Poster
Posts: 230
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:31 pm
Gear: Stringy Foil and DIY board
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 28 times

Flysurfer Race vs VMG

Postby Jyoder » Tue Apr 14, 2020 5:28 pm

I’m buying an old 15m Race for light wind foiling to complement my 11m foilkite. Would prefer a VMG but the Price is right! I’m not a racer but I like to ride fast, powered on short lines.

Curious about the Race and VMG bridle differences and similarities and how they compare in flight and turning.

Is VMG pretty much the same kite just with different bridle? Could one convert a Race to a VMG bridle? Should one attempt it? Race bridle sure looks messy compared to VMG simplicity.

https://flysurfer.com/files/dlm_uploads ... 5-Rev3.pdf

https://flysurfer.com/files/dlm_uploads ... P-15-1.pdf
Attachments
CF1C8ECB-85EE-45BF-9558-6B8FDA4EAF9A.jpeg
2E4F3CD9-5D49-46C9-84EF-A1EC1A1AA529.jpeg

kitexpert
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1024
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 11:20 pm
Gear: many kites, also diy
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 37 times

Re: Flysurfer Race vs VMG

Postby kitexpert » Tue Apr 14, 2020 7:27 pm

Quite different kites, bridle spacing and attachment points (kite inner structure), mixer and kite (wingtip) shapes are different. No way it is possible to put VMG bridle to Race, not even close it could work.

It is noteworthy how far front brakes are located in these kites.

sheehan
Rare Poster
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:04 pm
Kiting since: 2019
Gear: Slingshot
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Flysurfer Race vs VMG

Postby sheehan » Tue Apr 14, 2020 10:06 pm

Yes you could convert a Race into a VMG( should be easy) and vice versa (harder). To change from Race to VMG you should just have to link the split risers onto a new mixer, which you can just convert the old one.


You will also get benefit converting the VMGs mixer from 4to1 to 3to1 or 2to1. Another option is a diablo line.

User avatar
Armin Harich
Frequent Poster
Posts: 469
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2001 1:00 am
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Flysurfer founder and constructor
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 55 times

Re: Flysurfer Race vs VMG

Postby Armin Harich » Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:27 pm

KIteexpert ist right. You can not convert it into a VMG.

Foil
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1218
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:44 pm
Kiting since: 2000
Local Beach: NewBrighton beach-Derby pool end,Wallasey, near Liverpool for 6 months in summer
Flag beach on fuerteventura for 6 months in winter.
Favorite Beaches: Flag beach fuerteventura, off season/6months
Home - NewBrighton,Rhosneigr, Ainsdale, Fleetwood, Newbrough
Style: improving foiler.
Gear: Groove Skate 120,carbon 2020 edition
101cm + 82cm Moses Carbon masts
Moses- 633/483 on a 701 fuse
Moses- 720 balz pro/425 on longer 739 fuse
Ozone Hyperlink V1 ultra light 5mtr
Ozone V2 Hyperlink 7mtr + 9mtr
Ozone Chrono V3 UL foil kite 11mtr
Ozone compact V4 bars,click in,23 mtr lines
duotone click bar 2020
massive grin
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 96 times
Been thanked: 227 times

Re: Flysurfer Race vs VMG

Postby Foil » Sat Apr 18, 2020 8:25 am

Armin Harich wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:27 pm
KIteexpert ist right. You can not convert it into a VMG.
So
sheenan, kiteykitekite, foiliho or the other names he has used was giving not only very confusing information, but at times wrong and misleading info
:argue:
his arrogance was world leading. !

(the quality of being unpleasantly proud and behaving as if you are more important than, or know more than, other people)
and wrong??? :argue:

kitexpert
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1024
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 11:20 pm
Gear: many kites, also diy
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 37 times

Re: Flysurfer Race vs VMG

Postby kitexpert » Sat Apr 18, 2020 11:06 am

Foil wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 8:25 am

So
sheenan, kiteykitekite, foiliho or the other names he has used was giving not only very confusing information, but at times wrong and misleading info
:argue:
his arrogance was world leading. !

(the quality of being unpleasantly proud and behaving as if you are more important than, or know more than, other people)
and wrong??? :argue:
I am quite sure he meant mixer exchange, which should work but IDK why it should be done. Sonic Race has actually quite clever design (with added pulley 1:8) to pull wingtip A, which means relatively less pull for wingtip B-Z. This should be favorable because of so short chord at the wingtips. There is of course one added pulley line and a pulley per side, but that is not too much added complexity.

Long time ago I tried pulling wingtip A 1:4 and B-C 1:2 and it wasn't that bad. How this kind of things work depend on wingtip shape (chord length) and line row positions on the chord, and also kite size. Kite shape and bridle attachment points are of course fixed, so some mixer should work best but you can always try something different if you feel like it or preferably have an idea how to improve kite.

kiteexpertyexpert
Rare Poster
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:23 am
Gear: lots and lots of kites
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Flysurfer Race vs VMG

Postby kiteexpertyexpert » Tue May 12, 2020 10:16 pm

Look at you wet turds in the rain.

If flysurfer's line plans are to be believed, then the VMG and race are basically the same kite. Which I have read flysurfer state before as correct. With the reasoning for the 2 models being the lovely IKA IKA idiot collective. You can see on the line plan everything is mostly the same except for some bridle placement at the tip and the mixer. The bridle placement is minor, but you could likely tune other any issues locally. The mixer should be straight forward to change.

So yes you can change a Race into a VMG and vice versa.

Oh and Armin is and has been occasionally wrong. Just because you are are a nice guy and run the best foil kite companies does not mean you are right on everything. A name like "kitexpert" is about as misleading as you could be from a start.

sedluk
Medium Poster
Posts: 197
Joined: Fri May 15, 2015 11:36 pm
Local Beach: Alum Creek - Ohio
Favorite Beaches: Turks and Caicos - Long Bay
Sail Bay - San Diego
Style: Freeriding
Gear: Flysurfer Speed 4, Boost2, Speed 5, Sonic 2 & Sonic Race
Nobile split boards, Ketos Foils and Boards, Mystic Supporter Harness
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: Flysurfer Race vs VMG

Postby sedluk » Sat May 16, 2020 2:56 am

I have owned both, you will find plenty of people who will talk about the differences in the Race and VMG. I liked both of them and if I have to pick a favorite it would probably be the Race. I know that the VMG is the newer design and has a simple bridle and it is great. I just find that the Race is a little lower bar pressure and while the Race bridle is more complicated, I like the feel and the handling.

User avatar
Adventure Logs
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1126
Joined: Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:18 pm
Local Beach: Punta del Diablo, Uruguay
Favorite Beaches: Durban, SA
Corpus Christi
Gear: Flysurfer, Moses, Groove, Slinghot, Nobile, Zeeko
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 38 times
Been thanked: 119 times
Contact:

Re: Flysurfer Race vs VMG

Postby Adventure Logs » Sat May 16, 2020 4:30 am

kiteexpertyexpert wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 10:16 pm
Look at you wet turds in the rain.

If flysurfer's line plans are to be believed, then the VMG and race are basically the same kite. Which I have read flysurfer state before as correct. With the reasoning for the 2 models being the lovely IKA IKA idiot collective. You can see on the line plan everything is mostly the same except for some bridle placement at the tip and the mixer. The bridle placement is minor, but you could likely tune other any issues locally. The mixer should be straight forward to change.

So yes you can change a Race into a VMG and vice versa.

Oh and Armin is and has been occasionally wrong. Just because you are are a nice guy and run the best foil kite companies does not mean you are right on everything. A name like "kitexpert" is about as misleading as you could be from a start.
Foilholio, I don't know how you keep getting on here and what bug you have up your ass but please stop. You are ruining any of the good name you use to carry, it's sad.


Return to “Foil Kites”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests