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F-One Halo tuning advice needed and line plans?

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derek440
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F-One Halo tuning advice needed and line plans?

Postby derek440 » Mon May 04, 2020 4:20 am

I have a few foil kites but need something big as it is coming in to winter here and ideally i wanted something lower aspect than my race kites (R1s) so I can run longer lines and will be using this kite in fading/sketchy winds. A friend offered to sell me his Halo 19m cheap as he bought it last year for similar reasons and was learning foil kites and hydrofoil, and the kite had a beating and many swims and was used overpowered many times. So the kite went from flying very well to at the end of the season not flying properly at all so he offered me the kite cheap and I bought it. The problem is the kite has a fixed bridle with no adjust-ability, and there are no line plans for the bridle showing the line lengths (I asked the F-One dealer in my country for help and he said No as the kite wasn't purchased in this country). I have seen my friend try to fly the kite and it is definitely badly out of tune to the point it can't be used as it currently is.

So I picked up the kite and the first thing I tried was a long mixer test to see the air-foil shape at various sheeting positions. The result was that it looks like B and C (and probably Z) have shrunk massively from where I think they were originally. The manual recommends a short mixer test (and to change A level if short mixer is out) so I checked that and the short mixer test comes up ok. The problem seems to be that the very long thin bridles have shrunk a lot. So I guess there are two schools of thought on tuning (from what i can see) one is that you can zero the short mixer and stretch the bridle back to where it should be/was originally, and the other is you can change the mixer to lengthen B and C levels (and Z to match change of C). As I don't have line plans I have no idea where to stretch the bridle lines back to, also this seems like an easy way to mess up by having some bridle lines at various states of shrink/stretch and could end up in a mess. So I have opted to lengthen C and B (and Z same amount as C) to a point where the long mixer test lengths seem to make the appropriate shape for the wing - based on other kites that are similar and the relative lengths of their lengths from pigtails to A1, B1, C1. After lengthening the C pulley line in the mixer (using a new spliced section of line) it seems the long mixer shape lines up much better at the normal sheeting positions so I'll see if that helps the kite fly more like it used to before the bridle shrunk. But am I on the right track?? If I had a line plan things might be easier.

Any advice or help, especially from anyone who has adjusted a Halo or similar before would be great appreciated. Thanks.

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Re: F-One Halo tuning advice needed and line plans?

Postby evan » Mon May 04, 2020 6:43 am

Indeed weird that they give the entire bridle layout per size but not a table of dimensions in the manual. Did you try to contact the fone headquarters?

On a well designed kite A2+B2+C2 and A3+B3+C3 should all have the same length. So that you can attach the speed system to a fixed point and lengthen B and C to match A. Or shorten A an B to match C, just what you think is easiest.

Stretching the bridle and turning the speed system is a good way to to start before putting any knots or pieces of rope into the bridle to get it back in tune.

derek440
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Re: F-One Halo tuning advice needed and line plans?

Postby derek440 » Mon May 04, 2020 7:11 am

evan wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 6:43 am
Indeed weird that they give the entire bridle layout per size but not a table of dimensions in the manual. Did you try to contact the fone headquarters?

On a well designed kite A2+B2+C2 and A3+B3+C3 should all have the same length. So that you can attach the speed system to a fixed point and lengthen B and C to match A. Or shorten A an B to match C, just what you think is easiest.

Stretching the bridle and turning the speed system is a good way to to start before putting any knots or pieces of rope into the bridle to get it back in tune.
Thanks for the info evan, I also spoke to a mate who forwarded me a video of Connor Bainbridge saying pretty much the same thing, comparing the bridle from the top of the mixer up to the first junctions of the various A,B,C bridles in the centre of the kite, middle and edge. The problem is this has come back pretty close to even (A being about 1cm shorter on most of them which is weird). And the short mixer test is ok. but the kite doesn't fly properly.

The only changes I have made so far to the kite are to insert a pigtail where Z/Br connects to the mixer so I can let the brakes in/out when testing and also a longer C pulley line which again I can easily put little knots in whilst testing the kite at the park to see how it changes. I think I need to go to a park and give it a fly, just waiting for wind that won't send me paragliding. Also I'll hit up F-One global as I am getting nothing from the local agents.

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Re: F-One Halo tuning advice needed and line plans?

Postby evan » Mon May 04, 2020 10:07 am

Mostly it is the C, brake and wingtips that shrink the most (lines with least tension) so A being shorter is indeed weird.

If F-One doesn't want to share the original dimension you need to find someone with a new Halo to compare against or at least find out if ABC were all the same length in the bottom 2 sections from the factory. Some kites are more sensitive then others so 10mm out of tune can be a big problem.

Also try to find out if the kite is still airtight enough, a porous kite can have the same symptoms as a out of tune bridle.

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Re: F-One Halo tuning advice needed and line plans?

Postby kitexpert » Mon May 04, 2020 4:16 pm

If you stretch all lines it will get better, even very close to original. You'll feel how shrinked lines give in and when they don't stretch any more.

It is of course silly if you don't have line plan. Also to not have adjustable mixer is not acceptable in 2020 because it is not that difficult thing and it is needed constantly if foil kite is meant to keep in its original tune.

I suggest to keep mixer and different bridle line levels separated to each other, so no "long mixer test". Then you will get better view on what has happened and how lines in your kite alter their lengths.

If kite has been mishandled it is good to check if any inner structures are not damaged or seams are loosened. I don't fabric itself should be worn out because kite is not old.

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Re: F-One Halo tuning advice needed and line plans?

Postby derek440 » Tue May 05, 2020 2:27 am

kitexpert wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 4:16 pm
If you stretch all lines it will get better, even very close to original. You'll feel how shrinked lines give in and when they don't stretch any more.

It is of course silly if you don't have line plan. Also to not have adjustable mixer is not acceptable in 2020 because it is not that difficult thing and it is needed constantly if foil kite is meant to keep in its original tune.

I suggest to keep mixer and different bridle line levels separated to each other, so no "long mixer test". Then you will get better view on what has happened and how lines in your kite alter their lengths.

If kite has been mishandled it is good to check if any inner structures are not damaged or seams are loosened. I don't fabric itself should be worn out because kite is not old.
Thanks for the good advice and I agree on all points. I am going to try and stretch at least the very long mixer lines that I believe should be the same length 3a1, 3b1 and 3c1, and 3a2, 3b2, 3c2 etc. They number the lines with first number as level from the kite, so the 3 level is the long lines that go all the way to the top of the mixer. My concern is that this kite was flying badly before and these changes will only be small, there is less than 1cm difference in those lines so I'm not sure it will be enough to "fix" the kite, but a good place to start. Once I fly the kite msyelf (its raining here atm!) I will be able to see what is happenign with the brake lines, I suspect these are way too short, as kiteexpert pointed out in a previous post the design of these seems to be very succeptable to shrinkage affecting flying, I've put pigtails on the Br attachments to the mixer so i can land the kite, let the Br level out and try again until brakes are correct tension.

RE the line plans, F-One Australia told me to get lost. So I contacted F-One world and they told me to get lost too haha. What they said is "we dont' communicate the bridle length as we believe that they stretch with time and you would get the wrong settings". LOL

derek440
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Re: F-One Halo tuning advice needed and line plans?

Postby derek440 » Tue May 05, 2020 2:34 am

Also, yeah WTF with F-One designing their foil kites as if lines don't shrink. The same thing is happening with DIablo race kites so they had Connor their team rider do a video explaining how to stretch bridle lines so the Level 3 lines match. But why on earth would you have a mixer in 2020 with no adjustability, and not only no Flysurfer style LMT Long Mixer Test markings, also no line lengths so you can't ever be sure they are back to correct length. F-One seem to have lost the plot and live in a fantasy world where bridle Dyneema stretches and mixers are made of line that never changes.

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Re: F-One Halo tuning advice needed and line plans?

Postby kiteexpertyexpert » Tue May 12, 2020 10:36 pm

It's because the designers fail even basic things like measuring or looking. Just recently in another thread Armin from Flysurfer says... the bridles may stretch... and so it continues. You have to wonder if it's not a misinformation campaign by them.

Line plans are not needed to tune kites, though they can be helpful. Your first go to is Z, or symmetry.

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Re: F-One Halo tuning advice needed and line plans?

Postby derek440 » Thu May 14, 2020 6:33 am

As an update, I did as advised in the Connor B video provided by F-One and as a few people advised in this thread and I put the mixer back to zero (needed a few knots and changes to zero the mixer which is not adjustable) and I also stretched the main "branches" of the bridle back to what I think is the correct length and all level for each area where they are the same length. I got a chance to test fly the kite on the beach in very light winds and this seems to have fixed the kite, it might be too soon to call but it seemed to fly much much better. When parking it near the edge of window in the very light wind there was a very small amount of tip folding and it was possible to make one side luff but it was easy to avoid and recovered well. Also the kite powered up well flying through the window, so I think it could be working nicely now. Thanks for the advice!


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