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longer lines = better low end?

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longer lines = better low end?

Postby mar menor » Wed May 06, 2020 9:54 am

Interested in the trade off. Have a 10 m Nova Ultralight and 17m line +3m .
I also have an Ozone V4 foil bar with 25m lines which I could use with the Nova .Would it increase the low end but really turn much slower. On hydrofoil Moses 633 weigh 70 kgs.
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Re: longer lines = better low end?

Postby Toby » Wed May 06, 2020 10:18 am

Normally there is more wind the higher the kite is.
It also creates more power when traveling thru the wind window since this increases too.
With 3m more on a 10 you won’t feel much difference, but maybe can add 1 knot to low end.

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Re: longer lines = better low end?

Postby revhed » Wed May 06, 2020 10:47 am

Yes
Fly 20 m, then 30 m, maybe 40 m, and see for your self, of course same kite, bar, board, wind, best directly one after other.
R H

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Re: longer lines = better low end?

Postby dave1986 » Wed May 06, 2020 11:42 am

I believe that longer lines do increase low end.. but mostly only the very low-end when you're struggling to generate enough power to board-start up to your feet.

I have a 27m race line set for those very low winds which gives an extra second or 2 of power when diving the kite... But at the sacrifice of turning speed.

I'd estimate that long lines only give you an extra 1knot on the low-end compared with 18/20m lines.

It's also worth mentioning that heavier kites will often fall out of the sky at the zenith before they're not enough power to board-start... although with your Ultralight foil kite that won't be an issue.
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Re: longer lines = better low end?

Postby evan » Wed May 06, 2020 12:10 pm

On a hydrofoil it makes a big difference because the biggest reason you can't go out is the needed peak power for the water start. When foiling you can get away with a lot less power to keep riding.
Longer lines mean a longer power stroke so more chance to get on the foil.

On a twintip it doesn't matter as much. Because when you barely have enough power to water start you won't be able to ride Upwind. Increasing the power stroke makes little difference then. It helps, but it doesn't magically make your low end twintipping more fun.
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Re: longer lines = better low end?

Postby Peter_Frank » Wed May 06, 2020 1:09 pm

Evan is right, huge difference when foiling.

Not as much because kite is up higher, rarely matters, but because of the much longer more effective powerstroke, and upwards pull at the same time.

Advantages are also, you don't get overpowered once up.

You can save the kite if it gets too low, or extreme lulls, way easier.

And when turning, you get a lot more options, with longer lines.

8) Peter

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Re: longer lines = better low end?

Postby jumptheshark » Wed May 06, 2020 2:36 pm

Peter is right that Evan is right!

With extensions for low end foiling, its nice to add at least 5m to make a real difference.

3m extensions suit twin tip set up as they make a more noticeable difference to boosting and looping than outright low end.

My long lines are like my 12m kites..... dusty!

I've come to appreciate that practice and skill are THE MAJOR FACTOR when it comes to low wind water starting on a foil. Skill can make up for loads of unwanted line length and board volume. Watch some video of Sergio starting up with tiny kites. On the real low end, it's a completely different waterstart than when there is power to spare. Those who know how to waterstart a windsurfer in low winds or how to roll up onto a wakeboard behind an underpowered boat will have a decent understanding of this. Deep squat, compact body position in the water are key. Something like this:
p71139_v_v8_aa-3.jpg
With your ass inches from the back foot and board, it takes very little power to roll you up over a mostly submerged board and start moving forward. If you stand up too soon before you are moving well, you will sink the board and kill your speed. Stay low until the board surfaces. First fig 8/loop is about getting the board underneath you, foil down, directed just a few degrees upwind of the kite (thank you Slappysan). Second, third, fourth, etc fig 8 or wide loops are to get you moving forward STILL SQUAT in the water on your board until it is no longer plowing. Deep downwind angle hooking to a broad reach to generate apparent wind. Lastly, stand up and pump onto the foil. Compact body position with low centre of gravity is THE KEY.

At the low end you can't expect the kite to pull you up onto and over your board with straight legs.
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Re: longer lines = better low end?

Postby drsurf » Wed May 06, 2020 3:13 pm

jumptheshark wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 2:36 pm
Peter is right that Evan is right!

With extensions for low end foiling, its nice to add at least 5m to make a real difference.

3m extensions suit twin tip set up as they make a more noticeable difference to boosting and looping than outright low end.

My long lines are like my 12m kites..... dusty!

I've come to appreciate that practice and skill are THE MAJOR FACTOR when it comes to low wind water starting on a foil. Skill can make up for loads of unwanted line length and board volume. Watch some video of Sergio starting up with tiny kites. On the real low end, it's a completely different waterstart than when there is power to spare. Those who know how to waterstart a windsurfer in low winds or how to roll up onto a wakeboard behind an underpowered boat will have a decent understanding of this. Deep squat, compact body position in the water are key. Something like this:

p71139_v_v8_aa-3.jpg

With your ass inches from the back foot and board, it takes very little power to roll you up over a mostly submerged board and start moving forward. If you stand up too soon before you are moving well, you will sink the board and kill your speed. Stay low until the board surfaces. First fig 8/loop is about getting the board underneath you, foil down, directed just a few degrees upwind of the kite (thank you Slappysan). Second, third, fourth, etc fig 8 or wide loops are to get you moving forward STILL SQUAT in the water on your board until it is no longer plowing. Deep downwind angle hooking to a broad reach to generate apparent wind. Lastly, stand up and pump onto the foil. Compact body position with low centre of gravity is THE KEY.

At the low end you can't expect the kite to pull you up onto and over your board with straight legs.
:thumb: :thumb:

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Re: longer lines = better low end?

Postby jaros » Thu May 07, 2020 7:20 am

jumptheshark wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 2:36 pm
Watch some video of Sergio starting up with tiny kites.
Could you post a link of this video, please? Thanks!

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Re: longer lines = better low end?

Postby derek440 » Thu May 07, 2020 8:14 am

To prove this point about skill being the main factor I find that when I go out in super light winds my skill at starting to the left allows me to start in about 6kn, but with the exact same gear, same wind and the only change being skill level I can't start to the right. I'm just not as good at looping the kite, crunching over my board, balancing downwind pull with turning the foil upwind to start the foil kite pulling, and got no pumping game on my goofy stance. But now I can downloop gybe port to starboard with footchange I still have a way of keeping going once I've got that apparent wind turned on. Except the other day when I kited into a massive wind hole and crashed but realised I had super short lines on so the light wind downloop gybe was super hard, only just made it on third attempt.


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