Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

Ozone Zephyr V5/6 17m or Ozone Hypelink v2 11/13m ?

For all foil kite riders
kitexpert
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1024
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 11:20 pm
Gear: many kites, also diy
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 37 times

Re: Ozone Zephyr V5/6 17m or Ozone Hypelink v2 11/13m ?

Postby kitexpert » Thu May 07, 2020 4:31 pm

I consider Speed4/5 as modern foil kites. Soul is better kite but hard to say if it is more efficient.

IDK why anyone should drop kite in low winds, I do it very rarely in general. Foil kite relaunch is better in low winds as far as it doesn't take too much time. If LEI don't relaunch it is too low wind for TT anyway.

I have never seen high jumps in low winds. I know some can do it with hf but with TT it is usually 15-20 ft.

12-14kn is not low wind. I just rode it with 12m LEI, it wasn't great but I got 20 miles of ride and some jumps and tricks.
These users thanked the author kitexpert for the post:
Archer77 (Fri May 08, 2020 9:04 am)
Rating: 6.67%

joriws
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1036
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:03 am
Gear: Flysurfer, HQ, Moses, Nobile, North, Ozone
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 48 times
Been thanked: 81 times

Re: Ozone Zephyr V5/6 17m or Ozone Hypelink v2 11/13m ?

Postby joriws » Thu May 07, 2020 5:44 pm

SolarSet, exactly. Sorry kitexpert but that was a load of ignorant BS from you in paragraph "On TT 15m usual foil kite is not that much better if at all better compared to 17m LEI.".

Kitexpert do not seem to have any clue about ULW (sub-10kn or even 12kn). KE might want to save your face by saying that yeah i demoed back-to-back for 20 minutes Speed (which version of Speed) in 16kn winds and I had never flown a foil kite before that - but by admitting that you admit your total ignorance on this foil kite area. Another option is that you (KE) owned a Speed (if I recall correctly) and this states that you did not have any clue how to use it or it was 4th hand kite out of basic mixer trim. Which option you want to admit? Let me remind. Testing and riding kites at 18kn wind back to back is not the question here. Now we are testing credibility of advises shared to OP in wind where Zephyr does not work anymore. Also what is KE your definition of "good session" and on which board, 100l raceboard with 3x20" fins? Why not white caps, due to inversion effects? We all know those two Flysurfer "mirror" videos where water surface is a mirror and still you ride with TT. That could be in a definition of good session to someone (incl. me) but it requires the inversion. You might have had similar experience, no whitecaps and had a good session on 17m LEI.

On *TT* 15m foil kite (even 4 gen old Speed4) in sub-10kn winds is 100% better than LEI kite because LEI perform 0%. And I've ridden with Speed4 15m circles around all big LEI kites on your list except 19m Edge because there are none as 15m Edge is the largest on my area. Core XR19m (which Supa-ez used to LW-beat Epic kites Infinity), Airush 19m, Turbine 17m, Nitro2 16m, Dyno 18m, Dyno 16m, 16m Juice, Rebel 16m, Best 17m, Eleveigh 17m, .... The list is endless and growing. And we ride here in Scandinavia all year around, water & snow and even under heavy winter temperature inversion so I see kites how they perform in wide conditions.

I've similar 10y wide experience like SolarSet, my 110kg+gear jumps and play around with the foil kite on those winds, LEI if moving, they do the lawn. If LEI fly and people move or even ride, they are doing walk of shames because of reasons I explained on earlier post, they cannot go upwind. Similar to OP experience "losing ground". If you kitexpert don't believe me writing, don't worry I've plenty of my videos online doing stuff like that and I am happy to share them with you once more to show my credibility on this area. And more raw videos on old hard drive archives as I used to have helmet cam on my every session.

This is me last sunday jumping around 4-5m jumps on Sonic2 15m when 30kg lighter than me LEI rider despite of trying could not go with 12m EVO 2019(?). He saw me riding and jumping so he decided this 12m is his kite. He refused to pump his largest 15m LEI. Don't believe my height statement, well, the pic is from helmet cam with 183cm person, top of helmet so let's say camera is 180cm above ground. Filmed standing 1m above water level so camera-horizon plane is about in 2.5m to be safe. I've framed two video frames side by side, after landing the angle to horizon is roughly the same as in the air. *No white caps*, some cold water inversion for sure but same inversion for the LEI. Video taker did ride with Speed5 12m just before me on that same water.
surface wind estimation by the picture, this is lake with 3km wind blow upwind from photo location:
4-7mph Small wavelets, still short, but more pronounced. Crests have a glassy appearance and do not break
WhatsApp Image 2020-05-02 at 15.56.29.jpeg
--

Now back to OP topic. I still have Speed4 10m lotus kite which I still use and I can start to use around 13ish knots with fast TT. Now we are talking Hyperlink which should be similar to Soul, right. If I can start riding with my mass in 13ish winds on TT with 10m foil kite, he with -30kg weight should be able to ride 13m Hyperlink even with draggier TT-board. And if Zephyr does not provide in that wind it is Zephyr's fault, maybe some other LEI would work better, like the kitexpert's stated ones. But OP was not asking those kites but info/comparison for some reason with Hyperlink and those specific sizes (maybe 2nd hand offer?). But I recommended even better kite for him with TT, Chrono v3 UL which should be still user friendly race-freeride kite. And if he had 2nd hand access to 13m Hyperlink, my recommendation would be that over 11m HL with TT. And not to look back at Zephyrs ever again.. :)

--
These users thanked the author joriws for the post (total 2):
SolarSet (Thu May 07, 2020 9:06 pm) • Archer77 (Fri May 08, 2020 9:04 am)
Rating: 13.33%

joriws
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1036
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:03 am
Gear: Flysurfer, HQ, Moses, Nobile, North, Ozone
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 48 times
Been thanked: 81 times

Re: Ozone Zephyr V5/6 17m or Ozone Hypelink v2 11/13m ?

Postby joriws » Thu May 07, 2020 5:47 pm

kitexpert wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 4:31 pm
I consider Speed4/5 as modern foil kites.
Ok, you rode 15m Speed4 Lotus and could not win 17m LEI back to back. That tells a lot of your kiting skills..

Here is exactly the same kite which I and my 110kg beat 100% of LEI kites on arrived that day to the beach from 150-250km car drive so they wanted to kitesurf desperately. You can see 16-17m LW LEI barely flying, or getting up from water and I with my fat riding on unfamiliar Spleene monster-door *TT*..

These users thanked the author joriws for the post:
Archer77 (Fri May 08, 2020 9:04 am)
Rating: 6.67%

PullStrings
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1731
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2011 7:54 pm
Kiting since: 1999
Gear: LEI's & Surfboards
Has thanked: 82 times
Been thanked: 106 times

Re: Ozone Zephyr V5/6 17m or Ozone Hypelink v2 11/13m ?

Postby PullStrings » Thu May 07, 2020 7:51 pm

That video proves that you are the king of your pond

Others kiters with their 17 might suck at light wind

Plus they don't have a 166 x 50 door to ride

Plus their kites are not way up high as yours in the sky
These users thanked the author PullStrings for the post:
Archer77 (Fri May 08, 2020 9:04 am)
Rating: 6.67%

kitexpert
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1024
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 11:20 pm
Gear: many kites, also diy
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 37 times

Re: Ozone Zephyr V5/6 17m or Ozone Hypelink v2 11/13m ?

Postby kitexpert » Thu May 07, 2020 9:42 pm

LOL, most of my kiting skills are for ultra light wind. Many many times I've kited alone because no one else don't want to go because the lack of wind. I've done it for nearly twenty years now and most of it with foil kites, up to 24m. Mostly FS kites, but also many others including several race foil kites from brands like Ozone, PL, Joker, HQ. However I don't do it nearly as much nowadays than I used to do it and I also use mainly LEI kite now - because it is good enough and more reactive to fly.

If you joriws think that Yteri video impresses me that much think again. It is typical mowing the lawn with a big board, nothing really happens. Kites on the beach of course could have been used if they wanted to do so or had skills and preferably big boards like you had. Personally I haven't used doors for years (2012 maybe?) because they are so clumsy but I do have a light wind TT, I guess it is 145x45 size. Using hf of course makes this kind of equipment less important.

If you know how to fly kite and and how to ride a board (keeping it precisely right on the water and riding precisely correct angle to wind) kite significance essentially decreases. I once showed a guy with a 14m LEI (he was lighter weight than me) how to do it when he wasn't able to pull it up (it was a pity because he came to the beach with a bicycle hauling his gear with all difficulties :o ). Yes it wasn't much of a ride but I did go out and more importantly came back, without walk of shame. It is all about kiting skills. My goal wasn't to embarrass him but to show him it is possible, show how to pull it up with strong long pull and how to use kiteloop start, how to get some speed first, how to not lose ground etc etc..

I also know a local guy who is semi pro, he always uses smaller kites (LEI's) than anyone else and voila - there he goes again. In extreme cases he has been with a 10m kite, others 14m to 17m and couple with 15m Speeds. I think his secret is superb board skills (surfboards and foils), but of course he has excellent hand for kites too.

Unfortunately your weight alone joriws makes real ultra light wind kiting impossible on water. So your doubts for my low wind skills feel a bit funny to me. Do you even know what ultra light wind kiting is? I know what it is but I don't give crazy claims like riding in 4kn or in 6kn. On ice I've done it because then friction is near zero and you don't need power to get going but never on the water, not even with hf because I don't have that good skills with hf nor any desire to go out if wind is that weak.

When people tell their LEI's are falling from the sky and fix is to take a foil kite I shake my head. If you know how to fly a kite keeping it in the air is never an issue with a TT, meaning when using TT is possible in general. For sure if you take a huge foil kite there is an advantage or if you take a big race foil kite there is an advantage, but with a 15m Speed advantage with TT is minimal if it is there at all, compared to good 17m LEI. Board size and rider skill and weight have much more relevance.

On hard surface 15m Speed is more efficient though, then you have time to collect speed with it and push it to higher angles. But does it jump any higher than 17m LEI or even smaller LEI is questionable. No doubt Speed has more hang time, for those lame long jumps. Indeed, what a difference to a 9m LEI which yanks you up and brings you down dynamically, not leaving you hanging there silly. And you have full control and precise feel all the time for what is happening.

Jumping 4-5m is possible when you get some speed, it is more about board and rider than kite thing. With a 17m LEI in 10-12kn I typically get 15-20 ft jumps, if I had better technique perhaps some more could be possible. No big air for sure but if weather is nice - like it often is in low wind days - it is ok. And actually 20ft jumps start to have some feel of flying. For practicing new tricks light wind days are very good because you can push it to the max without much fear from hurting yourself. There is also not much chop when wind is light.
These users thanked the author kitexpert for the post (total 2):
Archer77 (Fri May 08, 2020 9:04 am) • PullStrings (Fri May 08, 2020 1:02 pm)
Rating: 13.33%

joriws
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1036
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:03 am
Gear: Flysurfer, HQ, Moses, Nobile, North, Ozone
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 48 times
Been thanked: 81 times

Re: Ozone Zephyr V5/6 17m or Ozone Hypelink v2 11/13m ?

Postby joriws » Thu May 07, 2020 10:08 pm

Sure Pullstrings, on low wind TT pond I've something to say. I understand you try personally to get to me with "king of pond" but you fail miserably.

PullS, why their lei kites are not higher, ask yourself. Let me answer, nose heavy lei despite of pulling steering they cannot get kite to zenith because it refuses to turn and do it in that wind. Downloop would be suicide and like that lei-rider washed his kite real good on shoreline. You see how vivid my kite moves at the sky, not => proof of low winds also affecting my kite

I rode just next to them point out there is wind and power in the wind for me to ride.

My lines were 27m which are not unheard in lw lei bars. Longer lines makes it even harder to go upwind in lw. PullS you probably did not know that pond rule.

Why they don't have tt on feet, because no power on lei, no, cannot ride. Tt flushed to shoreline if they had those on water.

Pulls, big tt is no secret. I need to compensate my mass with board and longer lines.

In the end what matters, kitexperts expert statement "15m speed foil is not better to 17m lei because I say so" was blown away out of ultra-low-wind pond of mine.
Last edited by joriws on Fri May 08, 2020 9:06 am, edited 2 times in total.

kitexpert
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1024
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 11:20 pm
Gear: many kites, also diy
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 37 times

Re: Ozone Zephyr V5/6 17m or Ozone Hypelink v2 11/13m ?

Postby kitexpert » Thu May 07, 2020 10:29 pm

joriws wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 5:44 pm
(which version of Speed)
All 8)

windrider1
Frequent Poster
Posts: 495
Joined: Sat Sep 02, 2006 1:51 am
Gear: FLYSURFER, HQ KITES, OZONE KITES
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: NY
Has thanked: 17 times
Been thanked: 25 times

Re: Ozone Zephyr V5/6 17m or Ozone Hypelink v2 11/13m ?

Postby windrider1 » Thu May 07, 2020 11:33 pm

A 11 or 13m foil kite is not considered light wind kites and you probally need 12knts or 13 knts + to just start riding on a big board on the 13m. A 17m lei will probally need 10knts plus to start riding. so in a nutshell u might have an edge on the 17m zephyr in 10 knts . But in lets say 14knts which is the ideal windrange ure probally better of on the 13m hyperlink as it will give u a faster and much more playfull along with nice lift for jumps .
These users thanked the author windrider1 for the post:
Archer77 (Fri May 08, 2020 9:04 am)
Rating: 6.67%

SolarSet
Frequent Poster
Posts: 269
Joined: Sat May 05, 2018 9:30 am
Kiting since: 2017
Local Beach: Hel Peninsula
Gear: Boost3 7m
Switchblades 10m,
XR6 8m & 11m
Soul 15m
NHP Split
Shinn Ronson
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 15 times
Been thanked: 49 times

Re: Ozone Zephyr V5/6 17m or Ozone Hypelink v2 11/13m ?

Postby SolarSet » Fri May 08, 2020 8:30 am

I would recommend 15m foil kite rather then 11 or 13m as foil kite for TT as range is greater than LEI. 17m zephyr will overpower you in 16kts.
Another problem with large LEI kites is their narrow wind range, at low end you can easily lose kite from sky in lulls and in stronger winds it will get over powered easily. With LEI I noticed that the smaller kite you can use the wider wind range. My 10m LEI range is 18-30kts and 7m 24-40kts but 14m only 14-22 kts, where 15m foil kite is 12-25kts. Tested high end more times than low end.

IMHO 15m foil kite will have similar range as 13m and 17m LEI kite. Which is great for both change conditions and travel.
Last edited by SolarSet on Fri May 08, 2020 9:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
These users thanked the author SolarSet for the post:
Archer77 (Fri May 08, 2020 9:05 am)
Rating: 6.67%

RalfsB
Frequent Poster
Posts: 258
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:45 pm
Kiting since: 2009
Local Beach: Beaches close to Riga, Latvia
Style: Freeride
Gear: Kites: Ozone, Naish, HQ4, Gin; Boards: Gong and Alpine foil, Machado Moonbeam, a bunch of boards that I shaped
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Riga, Latvia
Has thanked: 37 times
Been thanked: 26 times

Re: Ozone Zephyr V5/6 17m or Ozone Hypelink v2 11/13m ?

Postby RalfsB » Fri May 08, 2020 8:47 am

I can share my history and experience with lightwind kites, maybe it helps in some way.

Ozone Zephyr 17m - my first lightwind kite, it was the first-generation Zephyr. I used it with a twintip, an Alaia board, a raceboard (remember those big ones with 3 long fins?), also in winter with skis and snowboard. It was quite good, the main problem was it was heavy and was falling out of sky in marginal winds. But I could ride while others could only watch. Big kites were considered uncool at that time, not sure why. When the wind was really low, I was adding 10 to 15 meter line extensions and still could ride. But if the kite fell, it was pretty much the end of the session.

Airush Vantage 18m LW - this was advertised as a high aspect race kite and a 'race kite' sounded good to me. It was also a 3 strut kite (as opposed to 5 struts on Zephyr) so was much lighter. It had a nice feature that in lulls it would drift back a bit and then could recover, so it would not fall out of the sky so easily. So a fine kite, I would say.

Ozone Chrono 18m - my first foil kite (the 1st generation Chrono), bought it used, with a race bar. Foil kites were fashionable now, so I needed to try one. I mostly used it with an Airush Sector board and a self-built slalom board (sold my large raceboards because they were not so much fun to ride), Sector was nearly as good in light winds (with an emphasis on "nearly") but was much more playful. Also used it with an alaia (in shallows). It was powerful but I hated how slow-turning it was. In light winds it felt like minutes until the kite crossed the wind window. And then it goes to the edge of the window -- if you have not riding at some speed at this point then all the power is pretty much gone. And there is no power-on-demand, you can't quickly sine the kite up and down to get power because in the world of Chrono there is no such thing as quickly. Everything is smooth and painfully slow. Also had some long swims with the kite which were not pleasant. One of them was in early spring when water was just few degrees above the freezing point. I was nearly a km out in the sea and the wind dropped. I could not waterstart, then tried to loop the kite but the wingtip cached water and the kite went down. When I finally got to the beach, there were firefighters, police and paramedics waiting, and it took a long time to explain to them that I have not drowned, I am OK, just please let me go home.
I used this kite for riding in winter, it worked even when there was almost no wind. Nobody would even try to get a tube kite in the air but I could happily glide on my skis.

RRD Emotion 17m - the age of strutless kites had begun. They were advertised to be as light as foil kites but with the simplicity and safety of tube kites. The kite was also low aspect so it would turn much faster than Chrono. When I started to use this kite I soon noticed the downsides of this design. In the air it is not as balanced as a foil kite, the leading edge is still heavier than the rest of the kite. It can be tricky to land, the wind wants to lift the front part and the kite wants to roll over and fly. If the kite fell into water, it was pain or impossible to relaunch in light wind. If it fell on the leading edge and water got between the thick leading edge tube and the canopy, it became heavy and unwilling to lift. If it ended up leading edge up that was pretty much end of the story, all the canopy was wet and there were no struts to lift it out of water. Also the wind range of the kite was surprisingly narrow, if the wind is light you can hardly start but once you start riding the kite is pulling so much that it drags you downwind a lot. And when the wind picks up the kite needs to be depowered a lot, so much that it does not react to the steering input. I did not like this kite.

HQ4 Matrixx 18m - my second foil kite. HQ is a less known company than Ozone or Flysurfer but has been in the snowkite business for a long time, also has had some water foil kites. The latest generation Matrixx was advertised as lower aspect than those race foil kites and as fast turning. I bought it and I like it much more than my earlier Chrono. Turning is really faster and the wind range is really wide. Once I started my session in about 5m/s when my 12m kite would not work with a surfboard. Then wind picked up and it was about 10m/s in the end. I depowered my Matrixx and it still was controllable and I could finish my session. When riding on a twintip in marginal winds I still have to struggle not to go downwind but this still works better than any of my previous lightwind kites. I am also using it with slightly extended lines (29m) and a long 65cm bar for better turning speed. So this one is a keeper.
These users thanked the author RalfsB for the post:
Archer77 (Fri May 08, 2020 9:05 am)
Rating: 6.67%


Return to “Foil Kites”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests