Instead of long boring text & bullet -thread, like you had many with foilholio (which I did not bother to read), in 20y of riding you *must* have VHS-videos of you riding in low wind. Please share so that we can scrutinize your alleged kite skills that on 17m LEI you outperform and see your technique and sheeting skills. You can write anything you want (like I can write anything I want), for example I've kited 50y and I kite in -4 knots and I've ridden million hours per kite on all kites on the market and with 100m kite (not me but fellows stacked maybe 60m2 of kites, video on youtube), blah blah. You wrote "ft" in your jump height (my feet are 46EU or 12US, my feet must be bigger than yours but my jump measured in my feet are lower than your unless your feet are larger ) so you must be in USA where you say "talk is cheap" so show some real action. I did and I call you for your bluff similar Foilholio did. Start building your expert brand on VLOG or something, I'll subscribe so you got at least one viewer.kitexpert wrote: ↑Thu May 07, 2020 9:42 pmLOL, most of my kiting skills are for ultra light wind. Many many times I've kited alone because no one else don't want to go because the lack of wind. I've done it for nearly twenty years now and most of it with foil kites, up to 24m. Mostly FS kites, but also many others including several race foil kites from brands like Ozone, PL, Joker, HQ.
If you joriws think that Yteri video impresses me that much think again. It is typical mowing the lawn with a big board, nothing really happens. Kites on the beach of course could have been used if they wanted to do so or had skills and preferably big boards like you had. Personally I haven't used doors for years (2012 maybe?) because they are so clumsy but I do have a light wind TT, I guess it is 145x45 size. Using hf of course makes this kind of equipment less important.
If you know how to fly kite and and how to ride a board (keeping it precisely right on the water and riding precisely correct angle to wind) kite significance essentially decreases. I once showed a guy with a 14m LEI (he was lighter weight than me) how to do it when he wasn't able to pull it up (it was a pity because he came to the beach with a bicycle hauling his gear with all difficulties ). Yes it wasn't much of a ride but I did go out and more importantly came back, without walk of shame. It is all about kiting skills. My goal wasn't to embarrass him but to show him it is possible, show how to pull it up with strong long pull and how to use kiteloop start, how to get some speed first, how to not lose ground etc etc..
I also know a local guy who is semi pro, he always uses smaller kites (LEI's) than anyone else and voila - there he goes again. In extreme cases he has been with a 10m kite, others 14m to 17m and couple with 15m Speeds. I think his secret is superb board skills (surfboards and foils), but of course he has excellent hand for kites too.
Unfortunately your weight alone joriws makes real ultra light wind kiting impossible on water. So your doubts for my low wind skills feel a bit funny to me. Do you even know what ultra light wind kiting is? I know what it is but I don't give crazy claims like riding in 4kn or in 6kn. On ice I've done it because then friction is near zero and you don't need power to get going but never on the water, not even with hf because I don't have that good skills with hf nor any desire to go out if wind is that weak.
When people tell their LEI's are falling from the sky and fix is to take a foil kite I shake my head.
Jumping 4-5m is possible when you get some speed, it is more about board and rider than kite thing. With a 17m LEI in 10-12kn I typically get 15-20 ft jumps, if I had better technique perhaps some more could be possible. No big air for sure but if weather is nice - like it often is in low wind days - it is ok. And actually 20ft jumps start to have some feel of flying. For practicing new tricks light wind days are very good because you can push it to the max without much fear from hurting yourself. There is also not much chop when wind is light.
Interestingly I know all of those kites and my opinions of them are quite a lot same.RalfsB wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 8:47 amI can share my history and experience with lightwind kites, maybe it helps in some way.
Ozone Zephyr 17m - my first lightwind kite, it was the first-generation Zephyr. I used it with a twintip, an Alaia board, a raceboard (remember those big ones with 3 long fins?), also in winter with skis and snowboard. It was quite good, the main problem was it was heavy and was falling out of sky in marginal winds. But I could ride while others could only watch. Big kites were considered uncool at that time, not sure why. When the wind was really low, I was adding 10 to 15 meter line extensions and still could ride. But if the kite fell, it was pretty much the end of the session.
Airush Vantage 18m LW - this was advertised as a high aspect race kite and a 'race kite' sounded good to me. It was also a 3 strut kite (as opposed to 5 struts on Zephyr) so was much lighter. It had a nice feature that in lulls it would drift back a bit and then could recover, so it would not fall out of the sky so easily. So a fine kite, I would say.
Ozone Chrono 18m - my first foil kite (the 1st generation Chrono), bought it used, with a race bar. Foil kites were fashionable now, so I needed to try one. I mostly used it with an Airush Sector board and a self-built slalom board (sold my large raceboards because they were not so much fun to ride), Sector was nearly as good in light winds (with an emphasis on "nearly") but was much more playful. Also used it with an alaia (in shallows). It was powerful but I hated how slow-turning it was. In light winds it felt like minutes until the kite crossed the wind window. And then it goes to the edge of the window -- if you have not riding at some speed at this point then all the power is pretty much gone. And there is no power-on-demand, you can't quickly sine the kite up and down to get power because in the world of Chrono there is no such thing as quickly. Everything is smooth and painfully slow. Also had some long swims with the kite which were not pleasant. One of them was in early spring when water was just few degrees above the freezing point. I was nearly a km out in the sea and the wind dropped. I could not waterstart, then tried to loop the kite but the wingtip cached water and the kite went down. When I finally got to the beach, there were firefighters, police and paramedics waiting, and it took a long time to explain to them that I have not drowned, I am OK, just please let me go home.
I used this kite for riding in winter, it worked even when there was almost no wind. Nobody would even try to get a tube kite in the air but I could happily glide on my skis.
RRD Emotion 17m - the age of strutless kites had begun. They were advertised to be as light as foil kites but with the simplicity and safety of tube kites. The kite was also low aspect so it would turn much faster than Chrono. When I started to use this kite I soon noticed the downsides of this design. In the air it is not as balanced as a foil kite, the leading edge is still heavier than the rest of the kite. It can be tricky to land, the wind wants to lift the front part and the kite wants to roll over and fly. If the kite fell into water, it was pain or impossible to relaunch in light wind. If it fell on the leading edge and water got between the thick leading edge tube and the canopy, it became heavy and unwilling to lift. If it ended up leading edge up that was pretty much end of the story, all the canopy was wet and there were no struts to lift it out of water. Also the wind range of the kite was surprisingly narrow, if the wind is light you can hardly start but once you start riding the kite is pulling so much that it drags you downwind a lot. And when the wind picks up the kite needs to be depowered a lot, so much that it does not react to the steering input. I did not like this kite.
HQ4 Matrixx 18m - my second foil kite. HQ is a less known company than Ozone or Flysurfer but has been in the snowkite business for a long time, also has had some water foil kites. The latest generation Matrixx was advertised as lower aspect than those race foil kites and as fast turning. I bought it and I like it much more than my earlier Chrono. Turning is really faster and the wind range is really wide. Once I started my session in about 5m/s when my 12m kite would not work with a surfboard. Then wind picked up and it was about 10m/s in the end. I depowered my Matrixx and it still was controllable and I could finish my session. When riding on a twintip in marginal winds I still have to struggle not to go downwind but this still works better than any of my previous lightwind kites. I am also using it with slightly extended lines (29m) and a long 65cm bar for better turning speed. So this one is a keeper.
But it's true about the pond
Because weekend freerider like I am do not need larger than 15m foil kite. I've systematically stated that in every KF-thread I encounter with people asking "should they get 18, 19 or 21m foil kite for light wind". Invest less money in 15m kite and get 4-6m extensions and build understanding how to fly it and go, be happier. I had Speed3-21m when learning the art. If TT board selection matches the conditions, you can go so low that I even suspect that on my HF I cannot get the impulse to get up from water and on foil lift-off speed but maybe I need to learn HF pumping to do like real LW HF pro-riders. I know that people used Flyrace TT-board with 30cm middle fins at Toronto light winds to push ULW boundrary as down as possible on TT, so that would be the ultimate TT-gear also for me if I want one. But no I don't want to invest TT anymore as I have HF since 2015 and 2nd HF on order.
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