Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

Pansh Aeolus V2

For all foil kite riders
Chusss
Rare Poster
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2014 6:58 pm
Local Beach: Valencia - Spain
Favorite Beaches: Somo - Spain
Gear: Flysurfer Speed 3 12&21
Flyboard Radical M
Surfboard fish 5 10
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Pansh Aeolus V2

Postby Chusss » Sun May 10, 2020 1:04 pm

Hi everyone
I just realized Pansh released its Aeolus V2
There is a significant increase in its price from V1.
Do you guys think this might be due to better quality processes being implemented for this version?
Has anyone compared this kite against a Sonic 3 or a Chrono V3 or any other premium Freerace foil kite?
What about its cloth? Is it premium for 2020 or maybe just similar to what was premium back in 2015?
Will they really test and fine tune their trimmings before they deliver each purchase as they claim on their website?
Any real racers planning on competing on these kites?

It would be really interesting to read an independent comparison in between this kite and any premium Freerace alternatives as well as any in depth review

kitexpert
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 11:20 pm
Gear: many kites, also diy
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 19 times
Been thanked: 31 times

Re: Pansh Aeolus V2

Postby kitexpert » Sun May 10, 2020 11:54 pm

It is pretty impressive wing but when I now see the structure and the bridle it is easy to see it is not top of the line design. For sure it is big step forward from earlier version though.

Kite seems to have only span wise strapping and no diagonals, so there is a lot of bridle line instead (bridle on every second rib). It means more line drag than top end competitors have. IIRC Chrono v1 used similar construction but this one has even more cells, 59. A bit surprising choice, especially when cell count is that high and when lower rated Pansh kites do have diagonals.

Long mini ribs are excellent and make TE of kite look very good. Airfoil seems to have shape which should give stability, not making kite too difficult to use. At least hopefully.

17m size on sale under $1k is a decent price I guess, others are too expensive. Kites like PL Aero have been on sale as well, and that is very serious kite certainly above this one. Also there is quite a lot second hand race kites available when racers update their equipment.

hongchew
Medium Poster
Posts: 112
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 3:30 am
Gear: airush
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Pansh Aeolus V2

Postby hongchew » Mon May 11, 2020 3:54 am

kitexpert wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 11:54 pm
It is pretty impressive wing but when I now see the structure and the bridle it is easy to see it is not top of the line design. For sure it is big step forward from earlier version though.

Kite seems to have only span wise strapping and no diagonals, so there is a lot of bridle line instead (bridle on every second rib). It means more line drag than top end competitors have. IIRC Chrono v1 used similar construction but this one has even more cells, 59. A bit surprising choice, especially when cell count is that high and when lower rated Pansh kites do have diagonals.

Long mini ribs are excellent and make TE of kite look very good. Airfoil seems to have shape which should give stability, not making kite too difficult to use. At least hopefully.

17m size on sale under $1k is a decent price I guess, others are too expensive. Kites like PL Aero have been on sale as well, and that is very serious kite certainly above this one. Also there is quite a lot second hand race kites available when racers update their equipment.
You can tell how good a kite is by just looking at it. You are not kitexpert, you are kiteGod, lol

kitexpert
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 11:20 pm
Gear: many kites, also diy
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 19 times
Been thanked: 31 times

Re: Pansh Aeolus V2

Postby kitexpert » Mon May 11, 2020 11:01 am

hongchew wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 3:54 am

You can tell how good a kite is by just looking at it. You are not kitexpert, you are kiteGod, lol
Well how good something is depends very much how well it is designed and made. If race kite don't have those features successful race kites do have it is quite reasonable to think it isn't on par with them.

It is silly to think for example FS has worked hard for years (or decades) to design their kites fully supported with sophisticated inner structures and so reducing very much bridle line(s drag) if it wasn't necessary to make best possible products.

Of course Aeolus v2 is very effective kite, but I doubt if it is competitive against the best race kites. Very probably (and hopefully) difference is not big but when racing even small advantage matters.

derek440
Rare Poster
Posts: 38
Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:47 am
Local Beach: Perth
Favorite Beaches: Coogee
Style: Frothing the foils
Gear: Surf kites, strapless surfboards, foil gear, foil kites
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 10 times

Re: Pansh Aeolus V2

Postby derek440 » Tue May 12, 2020 2:55 am

Very interesting about the lack of diagonal bracing in the kite structure, for me this is actually a big deal, as is excessive bridles. I owned an Ozone R1 version 1 and it was a great kite when it was flying along, but it had some serious problems that were mostly solved by the new R1V2 which looks the same in terms of airfoil, but as Ozone said the only thing that changed is everything, as in everything inside. Ozone made a big change to implement diagonal bracing on the R1v2 and in doing that they were also able to update the bridle and use different cloth as the cloth becomes less load bearing due to the bracing. This makes the kite, lighter, stiffer and more stable and difference is night and day when you fly the kites. High AR kites are already inherently frisky and take some taming, even the good ones, but to add issues like being a bit wobbly, or a big heavy or draggy are total deal breakers and there are heaps of race kites that everyone knows not to buy for reasons like this. Another big issue is that race kites are often in the water, especially for people learning racing. When they do hit the water, your chances of successful water relaunch is largely a factor or how much the kite wants to return to its proper shape and wing stiffness is the key to that. Its one of the things that makes the FS Soul so good at water relaunch, you can fold it and tie it up but it wants to pop back out because of its internal structure and stiffness. I thought the new Aeoleus was looking promising, but at a time when other brands are moving another step ahead, increasing again the internal stiffness of the wing and lowering drag by removing even more bridles, Pansh seem to be at least a decade behind, and in terms of high AR foil kites that could mean bad things for this kite, but someone has to try it to confirm.

More info on the next generation is just coming to light as the Olympic IKA quad equipment box has just closed, so FS are bringing out VMG2 which is rumoured to have loads of new internal structure for the purpose of a massive reduction in bridles and drag, more than ever seen before. Also Ozone's new R1 ver4 is about to come out and also has massive stiffness increase and bridle reduction, same for F-One Diablo ver 5. In terms of competitive racers considering buying Pansh kites, I have asked around at my local race club and nobody is considering them, at that level they all want to ride tried and proven fast and reliable gear.

kitexpert
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 11:20 pm
Gear: many kites, also diy
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 19 times
Been thanked: 31 times

Re: Pansh Aeolus V2

Postby kitexpert » Tue May 12, 2020 11:28 pm


So on other Pansh kites with D and H straps they are not visible in pictures. So like the performance of the kite it is completely dumb shit to determine either from just pictures. The kite has been tested (by Olympic training racers) against the R1V3 and has likely copied much of it's design from it too. (Industry standard practice to copy others kites) So it would be reasonable to think it would have some performance.

The internal straps do not provided stiffness. Fabric is not a stiff component. Flysurfer's greater stiffness is from retaining higher internal pressure. Flysurfer has good fabric coatings and seam construction and inlet placement and construction to do this. Straps distribute loads from and into the bridles making the kite stronger and have a better shape.

As to price well it is expensive, but the kite has about 2x the labor to construct so it would be reasonable for it to be priced at 2x, it is however priced at 4x. If you look at the changing pricing and the now member discounts I suspect Pansh is returning to their old pricing. Which is to sell always at much higher prices and have regular 50% off events. Sales strategies have proven this as an effective way to capture both ends of a market. Those with too much money will not wait and just buy and those with little money will buy during specials. In the end Pansh makes much more money and so can develop even better kites and have higher quality.
R1V3 has very different construction, so this one is not a copy of it. Aeolus has perhaps 1,5x more bridle line than R1V3 and at least 2x more than FS race kites have. For big kite this can mean close to 100m more line dragging in the sky. Shouldn't be very difficult to understand if that helps upwind performance...

But of course kite like Aeolus has high performance, with that high AR and as clean wing as it has. Question is how competitive it is against other kites of its kind. I guess the faster you go and steeper upwind you push the more Aeolus loses because it has more (line) drag.

Fabric is stiff for pull. Last time I was on top of the line race kite (Aero v2) canopy stability and responsiveness for steering input was very good indeed, probably best I've ever experienced with a foil kite. That kite is very well designed with lot of inner structures. If kite don't have bridle on every rib (which is practically impossible for a race kite) only way to get fully supported and rigid canopy is to use inner structures (D-ribs or H-ribs). Aeolus has bridle on every second rib and apparently only span wise straps. It is kind of old fashioned way to do it.

PullStrings
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1655
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2011 7:54 pm
Kiting since: 1999
Gear: LEI's & Surfboards
Has thanked: 75 times
Been thanked: 82 times

Re: Pansh Aeolus V2

Postby PullStrings » Wed May 13, 2020 1:36 pm

Keep up the good work kitexpert

:winner2:
Last edited by PullStrings on Thu May 14, 2020 9:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

cassianv
Rare Poster
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed May 13, 2020 2:38 pm
Gear: Wainman
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Pansh Aeolus V2

Postby cassianv » Thu May 14, 2020 3:29 am

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. If you look at the 21m FS VMG it has bridles with both 2 cell and 4 cell gap with the difference per row being 8.586m or 25.758m for 3 ABC rows or about 17% more bridles for a 4row kite. Which is not even close to the extra 50% or 100m you wildly throw out. Bridles are significantly lighter weight than straps. You can also use even thinner bridles when you divide them more, so not as much drag as the extra 25m implies.

Stiff is the wrong term for something in tension, low stretch is the term you are looking for. The rigidity is from the internal pressure as the straps only help control distortions or the shape.

The kite was seen on multiple occasions with the R1V3. It has clearly been designed to compete against it.

Response in foils is improved when line action can affect more wing action, drag is reduced or most importantly when inertia is reduced, like seen on single skins.

It is highly questionable if the effort for many straps is worth it when many other things are not explored.

esme
Rare Poster
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:57 am
Kiting since: 2009
Gear: Fone Breeze, Flysurfer Sonic FR
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: Pansh Aeolus V2

Postby esme » Thu May 14, 2020 3:46 am

cassianv wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 3:29 am
You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. If you look at the 21m FS VMG it has bridles with both 2 cell and 4 cell gap with the difference per row being 8.586m or 25.758m for 3 ABC rows or about 17% more bridles for a 4row kite. Which is not even close to the extra 50% or 100m you wildly throw out. Bridles are significantly lighter weight than straps. You can also use even thinner bridles when you divide them more, so not as much drag as the extra 25m implies.

Stiff is the wrong term for something in tension, low stretch is the term you are looking for. The rigidity is from the internal pressure as the straps only help control distortions or the shape.

The kite was seen on multiple occasions with the R1V3. It has clearly been designed to compete against it.

Response in foils is improved when line action can affect more wing action, drag is reduced or most importantly when inertia is reduced, like seen on single skins.

It is highly questionable if the effort for many straps is worth it when many other things are not explored.
Interesting have you flown this new kite? How does it compare to the VMG or new sonic? Thanks

derek440
Rare Poster
Posts: 38
Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:47 am
Local Beach: Perth
Favorite Beaches: Coogee
Style: Frothing the foils
Gear: Surf kites, strapless surfboards, foil gear, foil kites
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 10 times

Re: Pansh Aeolus V2

Postby derek440 » Thu May 14, 2020 6:15 am

cassianv wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 3:29 am
You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. If you look at the 21m FS VMG it has bridles with both 2 cell and 4 cell gap with the difference per row being 8.586m or 25.758m for 3 ABC rows or about 17% more bridles for a 4row kite. Which is not even close to the extra 50% or 100m you wildly throw out. Bridles are significantly lighter weight than straps. You can also use even thinner bridles when you divide them more, so not as much drag as the extra 25m implies.

Stiff is the wrong term for something in tension, low stretch is the term you are looking for. The rigidity is from the internal pressure as the straps only help control distortions or the shape.

The kite was seen on multiple occasions with the R1V3. It has clearly been designed to compete against it.

Response in foils is improved when line action can affect more wing action, drag is reduced or most importantly when inertia is reduced, like seen on single skins.

It is highly questionable if the effort for many straps is worth it when many other things are not explored.
I agree that there is current debate about how much to put extra cloth (and weight) in the kite to lower the drag of bridles, the problem is evidence and the trend is pointing away from what you are saying. Having minimal structure in the kite is light but you need more bridles and yes they can be thinner, but the problem is this isn't faster. Both the new VMG2 and R1v4 have been designed to win the '24 olympics and both companies have decided to load the kites with more cloth for more rigidity (is this really that different from stiffness?). Ozone have talked of design trade-off as you mentioned trying to keep too much weight out of the kite, but FS in the new VMG2 are massively focusing on rigidity of the kite and a massive reduction in bridles and they are sure from their testing that its better and faster. The rumour I heard is that FS have reduced the amount of bridle in VMG2 by as much as 40% when the final bridles and systems are finished (only wing has to be locked in by the May 1 deadline), and also R1v4 I heard has at least 40m less bridle. R1v3 has thinner and less bridles than v2, and v1 had no diagonal bracing and was unstable, too heavy and had too much bridle. They also had to use heavier cloth for the whole kite as the outer layers were load bearing, the internal bracing is what allowed subsequent R1's to be so light and rigid and to have such tiny bridles. To prove the new VMG2 is on the right track with bridle/drag reduction Theo rode the new VMG2 in La Ventanna earlier this year and blew away the competition by a very long way. So yes there is a design trade-off, but no, its def not best to have a light kite with less internal rigidity, I don't think any current generation race kites have no diagonal bracing and that's for good reason.
These users thanked the author derek440 for the post:
kitexpert (Thu May 14, 2020 4:00 pm)
Rating: 8.33%


Return to “Foil Kites”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests