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New Pansh vs used Ozone / Flysurfer

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Michaelr123
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New Pansh vs used Ozone / Flysurfer

Postby Michaelr123 » Thu May 21, 2020 8:06 pm

I know this might be a hot button issue but I'm going to ask it anyway.

what's the current stance on the best option, a used older ozone/flysurfer kite like a chrono v1 or sonic vs a new A15 / aurora? I've seen a ton of great reviews on pansh A15's and Aurora's once modded, and seeing as they can be had in ultralight material for around $500 - 600, they seem like a pretty solid deal for a new, race / light wind foiling. I also enjoy snow kiting during the winter and I know a foil kite would be fun for that as well.

for that same price, you can usually find used, but in good condition 2015-2017 flysurfer/ozone kites (hyperlinks, chronos, sonics, etc.) if you keep up with the secondhand market.

I wouldn't mind playing with bridles and such, but I also don't want to spend all my time fiddling with bridles rather than riding. I think its fun that people are trying out these lower cost brands and getting really good performance out of them, but if you had to pickup your first higher aspect foil kite, what would you recommend?

I've spent plenty of time combing through the discussions/arguments so I don't mean to spark another flame war between brands, I'm just curious if these older, used foils are still worth investing into in 2020 or if new pansh kites are a better place to start off with a foil kite.

Thanks,
-Michael
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wheat (Sat May 23, 2020 4:42 am)
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Breze
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Re: New Pansh vs used Ozone / Flysurfer

Postby Breze » Thu May 21, 2020 8:28 pm

which sizeare you looking for? In your avatar you wrote that you use a 76 space skate. Why do you want a high aspect racelike foilkite? Esp if it is you first foil? Chrono v1 or Sonic FR are really difficult to handle. The smaller sizes are very trimm sensitive too. Get a used soul or chrono v3 best performance vs ease of use.
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Re: New Pansh vs used Ozone / Flysurfer

Postby FLandOBX » Thu May 21, 2020 8:42 pm

I own a Pansh Aurora 2, a FS Speed 4 Lotus, and a FS Soul. I bought the Pansh new. Both Flysurfers were pre-owned. All are good kites. I have not made any modifications to any of these kites.

My Soul gets the most use for foilboarding. It is probably the best kite of the three. But if you are highly price sensitive, there is no better value than a Pansh Aurora or A15.

I am surprised that you are finding pre-owned Flysurfers priced comparably with a new Pansh. In my experience, a good quality pre-owned Flysurfer would cost 2-3 times the price of a new Pansh. You'll maintain better re-sale value with the Flysurfers.

Bottom line for me: If you want to spend as little as possible but still have a fun usable foil kite, Pansh is the answer. If you can spend a bit more and want a higher quality kite with better re-sale value, buy a pre-owned Soul.
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Michaelr123
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Re: New Pansh vs used Ozone / Flysurfer

Postby Michaelr123 » Thu May 21, 2020 9:02 pm

Breze,

I should mention I'm going to be going from my 76cm infinity to a 65cm infinity or/and a warp speed soon ( I want to break 30mph and see if I'm interested in foil racing). So far I like my 11m boxer for light wind on the surf foil :)

I should mention I've flown Access and frenzy's before on the snow, so it wouldn't be the first foil kite I've flown, but it would be the first one I've owned. A Chrono would definitely be the highest aspect kite i've flown. My kit right now includes 2 apollos and a turbine, so I like my higher aspect kites.

FLandOBX,

I should clarify and say I'm mostly finding older ozone kites in that price range, flysurfers not so much. seems like they start more in the $800-1000 range. now by quality, do you mean more fun to fly and better performing or longer lasting and easier to resell?

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Re: New Pansh vs used Ozone / Flysurfer

Postby airsail » Thu May 21, 2020 9:12 pm

I think whichever way you go it will be cost neutral, pay more for the Ozone or Flysurfer but with much higher resale value. Pansh are ok kites but due to their low initial cost have virtually no resale value.

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Re: New Pansh vs used Ozone / Flysurfer

Postby FLandOBX » Thu May 21, 2020 10:03 pm

Michaelr123 wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 9:02 pm
FLandOBX, ... by quality, do you mean more fun to fly and better performing or longer lasting and easier to resell?
Both. If you put a Pansh kite beside a Flysurfer, you can see and feel the difference in quality by a quick inspection. FS has better quality materials and appears to be a better and more durable build. Like comparing an economy vs. a luxury automobile. That "quality" difference carries over to performance and the fun-factor once the kites are in the air. In general, a FS kite should be a better performer and last longer (and absolutely be easier to resell) than a Pansh.

Having said that, I stand by my earlier comment that there isn't a better value for your money than a Pansh Aurora or A15. So your decision really depends on how cost sensitive you are, IMHO. Good luck and have fun!

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Re: New Pansh vs used Ozone / Flysurfer

Postby Michaelr123 » Thu May 21, 2020 10:19 pm

FLandOBX,

sounds like you're a flysurfer guy, which I can respect. I'd love to own one someday, whether its a peak4 or a sonic.

However, I'm looking at a deal on a chrono v1 at the moment. Is this design still relevant or should I steer clear? I don't know as much about the progression on foil kite designs as far as tech goes. if it were a tube kite I'd probably to stick to 2017 and newer, and I'm wondering if that mentality holds true for foil kites. I'm not trying to win any races here, I'm just looking to see if its a side of the sport I enjoy and seeing if I like dealing with foil kites at our local spots.

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Re: New Pansh vs used Ozone / Flysurfer

Postby Adventure Logs » Thu May 21, 2020 10:33 pm

Michaelr123 wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 10:19 pm
FLandOBX,

sounds like you're a flysurfer guy, which I can respect. I'd love to own one someday, whether its a peak4 or a sonic.

However, I'm looking at a deal on a chrono v1 at the moment. Is this design still relevant or should I steer clear? I don't know as much about the progression on foil kite designs as far as tech goes. if it were a tube kite I'd probably to stick to 2017 and newer, and I'm wondering if that mentality holds true for foil kites. I'm not trying to win any races here, I'm just looking to see if its a side of the sport I enjoy and seeing if I like dealing with foil kites at our local spots.
I’d be careful with an Ozone Chrono V1. Very finicky and may take a lot of work to get back to near new performance (no adjustable bridle) and they even had a recall on a bridle issue if I remember correctly. Great performer though (I had a 18m V1)

The reason why Flysurfers mainly have better resale is their adjustable bridle and quality. When you buy a Panish, you are kinda throwing the dice on if it will be just their normal work of mods and bridle adjustments or it can be a handful to even get to fly correctly. Their quality control is pretty non existent.

So I guess it depends, are you willing to risk buying a kite which may not work correctly even out of the bag and won’t be able to sell to save a couple bucks??

Get a used Soul or Chrono, they’re deals to be had but you are buying at the worst time.
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Re: New Pansh vs used Ozone / Flysurfer

Postby joriws » Fri May 22, 2020 5:30 am

Also Ozone kites are not made for maintenance like bridle swap (you snowkite so more likely), speed system tune. Chrono v1 is old so more maintenance needed is more likely. I demoed 18m C1 and after jump it might collapse. At that time I had 7y experience with (FS) foil kites and owned Sonic-fr v1. Lesser experienced fellow demoer ball'd Chrono v1 every time.

Sonic-fr v1 problem in light winds is instead of drift on lulls it easily hindenburgs by collapsing central leading edge. So minimum Sonic-2 recommended by me which drifts and can be saved. Soul and speed 5 are ok too, never tested Sonic-3 but I doubt you get those 2nd hand yet.

Pansh, well there is one locally. It does not fly well, caused long swims for him, although he was not experienced foil kite flyer but the guy frustrated on it so continued with Cloud kites he had and uses Pansh to shelter firewood. The guy went this spring for Peak4 and praises that (he purely hydrofoils) in social media.
Last edited by joriws on Fri May 22, 2020 7:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New Pansh vs used Ozone / Flysurfer

Postby loco4viento » Fri May 22, 2020 6:05 am

I’ve owned plenty of Flysurfer kites:
Speed (10 & 19), Pulse (6, 8, 14), Sonic (9, 11,18). And an old Mastair 16.
I like them quite a lot.
But right now $550 USA dollars would get me a Pansh Aurora3 7m and 12m delivered to my door. Amazing deal. And I’ve flown Pansh A15 (9&12) and Aurora2 (19) and I’m pretty familiar with them.
Pansh has less tangly bridles and the normal fabric really repels water well. And I’m not afraid to adjust a few bridles if needed. I happen to be 4 out of 4 Pansh kites flying perfectly out of the bag.
Flysurfers have more aerodynamic bridles which are way more likely to foul on feathers, twigs, leaves, fish bones, bird bones and whatever else your launch might provide. Flysurfers require more frequent bridle tuning but tuning them is really well thought out and super easy.
So it’s a personal choice as always.
But I would have trouble saying no to a 7 and 12 Aurora 3 for 550 US delivered.
I’d buy them now but I already own lots of kites.
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