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Flysurfer is going to beat fishnets? (Release of VMG2)

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Bille
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Re: Flysurfer is going to beat fishnets? (Release of VMG2)

Postby Bille » Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:42 am

I'm Excited, for where this wing, could take kite technology , in
the next few years ; got a feeling that they might look a bit different
soon !!! :thumb:

Bille

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Re: Flysurfer is going to beat fishnets? (Release of VMG2)

Postby Schietwedder » Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:02 pm

I don't understand how much discussion there is about the battens.
I'm quite sure the Benni and the flysurfer guys are quite happy with the glassfiber battens and there isn't much to be improved for now especially on the material side, its way more important how to use them.
They are economical and for their good mechanical properties light enough.


I used the same or similar gf rods in my diy kites as it was the only thing i could find which would have more spring capability and tension than the grass cutter nylon and which would bend enough for the nose radius. Even now when using the thinnest batten available to me (0.8mm) I can't bend them around the 10 tip cells for a 12m freeride size.

I'm quite sure that the race kites have thinner and shorter profiles (high AR) which ask for even more flexibility than 0.8mm maybe 0.4mm in the tips or use a different material (nylon) in the LE.

If you wanted to use carbon or a combination of composite materials you would need rods of 0.2mm or thinner for the same flex whicj is quite pointless from an economic point not even considering if they are made in that sizes and how easy (UD) they break.

Also I'm not sure wether they use the battens for maintaining the profile shape.
With sufficent internal pressure that should be the job of the ribs which they are quite good at usually.

I would think the battens are more for distributing loads of thebridle points (point loads) onto the ribs and internal structure. Therefore you might want a soft transition so not a super hard batten.

The way they are s- shaped could induce some reflex or other deformation of the canopy when depowered which wouldn't be possible with a 2 point mixer.

My guess, it's a totally new technique in kites at least...so the only ones that know is the designers and maybe some riders who have ridden it and understand what the differences are compared to 3 row and 4 row designs.
There has been a lot more development and research in PG design where I think some of these new ideas come from (Skywalk)

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Re: Flysurfer is going to beat fishnets? (Release of VMG2)

Postby Schietwedder » Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:16 pm

And I'm really amazed how the flysurfer design team evolves.
I would be slightly worried if my name was rob whitall to keep up.

A lot of new or never practically used ideas which seem to work out really well. Also the 13m VMG with AR of 13 they released as a proto last year.... Hats of to even make such a thing fly...
They have got a lot of things right and understood which is harder then you think in kite design.
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Re: Flysurfer is going to beat fishnets? (Release of VMG2)

Postby juanpasala » Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:29 pm

Schietwedder wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:02 pm
I don't understand how much discussion there is about the battens.
I'm quite sure the Benni and the flysurfer guys are quite happy with the glassfiber battens and there isn't much to be improved for now especially on the material side, its way more important how to use them.
They are economical and for their good mechanical properties light enough.


I used the same or similar gf rods in my diy kites as it was the only thing i could find which would have more spring capability and tension than the grass cutter nylon and which would bend enough for the nose radius. Even now when using the thinnest batten available to me (0.8mm) I can't bend them around the 10 tip cells for a 12m freeride size.

I'm quite sure that the race kites have thinner and shorter profiles (high AR) which ask for even more flexibility than 0.8mm maybe 0.4mm in the tips or use a different material (nylon) in the LE.

If you wanted to use carbon or a combination of composite materials you would need rods of 0.2mm or thinner for the same flex whicj is quite pointless from an economic point not even considering if they are made in that sizes and how easy (UD) they break.

Also I'm not sure wether they use the battens for maintaining the profile shape.
With sufficent internal pressure that should be the job of the ribs which they are quite good at usually.

I would think the battens are more for distributing loads of thebridle points (point loads) onto the ribs and internal structure. Therefore you might want a soft transition so not a super hard batten.

The way they are s- shaped could induce some reflex or other deformation of the canopy when depowered which wouldn't be possible with a 2 point mixer.

My guess, it's a totally new technique in kites at least...so the only ones that know is the designers and maybe some riders who have ridden it and understand what the differences are compared to 3 row and 4 row designs.
There has been a lot more development and research in PG design where I think some of these new ideas come from (Skywalk)
I dont think the GF battens function is to stiffen the leading edge, there I tjink they ll still use the nylon reinforcement. The battens shoul be used for stiffening the top of the canopy.

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Re: Flysurfer is going to beat fishnets? (Release of VMG2)

Postby darippah » Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:15 am

I wonder if this is going to be a good choice for Boosting? I like my Sonic 2's 13m but I Think it's dying on me

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Re: Flysurfer is going to beat fishnets? (Release of VMG2)

Postby Bille » Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:27 am

Schietwedder wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:16 pm
And I'm really amazed how the flysurfer design team evolves.
I would be slightly worried if my name was rob whitall to keep up.

A lot of new or never practically used ideas which seem to work out really well. Also the 13m VMG with AR of 13 they released as a proto last year.... Hats of to even make such a thing fly...
They have got a lot of things right and understood which is harder then you think in kite design.
I fly a Skywalk Chili Paraglider . Skywalk and Flysurfer, were founded by the
same team of Adrenaline Junkies ; the teams genetic pool of knowledge , and ingenuity
and creativity, is unmatched by most humans on the planet ;
BUT
i would Not, count out Rob Whitall, from Ozone ; world champ at both PG and HG, and
his company made some Awesome stuff , in the last few years !!!

This new kite from the Flyysurfer ; it's gonna get , everyone else , "Thinking"
and that's a Good Thing !!! :thumb:

Bille
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Re: Flysurfer is going to beat fishnets? (Release of VMG2)

Postby davesails7 » Sat Jun 27, 2020 6:29 pm

Bille wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:27 am
This new kite from the Flyysurfer ; it's gonna get , everyone else , "Thinking"
and that's a Good Thing !!! :thumb:
The interesting part is these kites are locked in now for 4 years. If the Flysurfer is the fastest, they'll have a monopoly for 4 years! (at least for IKA events and Olympics)

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Re: Flysurfer is going to beat fishnets? (Release of VMG2)

Postby joriws » Fri Aug 28, 2020 6:07 am

Hashtag only says VMG but is this VMG2? Nevertheless awesome jump captured on video.

*edit* Coloring and 3 stripes is Sonic3 11m (or 9m). On my first check was checking on small mobile screen and did not pay attention to kite details, why team rider tagged VMG?


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Re: Flysurfer is going to beat fishnets? (Release of VMG2)

Postby Adventure Logs » Fri Aug 28, 2020 7:45 am

Yep thats a Sonic3 11m. Most likely tagged VMG for the likes and maybe because the S3 is based off the VMG.

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Re: Flysurfer is going to beat fishnets? (Release of VMG2)

Postby Atte » Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:35 am

joriws wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 6:07 am
Hashtag only says VMG but is this VMG2? Nevertheless awesome jump captured on video.

*edit* Coloring and 3 stripes is Sonic3 11m (or 9m). On my first check was checking on small mobile screen and did not pay attention to kite details, why team rider tagged VMG?

My guess is if you have so many # you just copy and paste.


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