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just arrived a new 9mtr soul joins my family of foil kites, need advice!

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SolarSet
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Re: just arrived a new 9mtr soul joins my family of foil kites, need advice!

Postby SolarSet » Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:32 am

if it felt like LEI it wouldn't have foil kite advantages.
By saying that Soul feels like LEI they mean that this kite feels most similar to LEI in comparison to other foil kites. Which is still way different experience than flying LEI kite.
Whether it's true I'm not sure as Soul is my only ever foil kite I flown.

Main difference between foil kite and LEI are:
+has range 150% of LEI kite
+massive hang time and floaty jumps
+insane upwind
+take 50% space after folding (not to mention pump)
+higher speed once get going
-more hassle with all fish nets that needs to be sorted and checked before lunch
-slow turning speed
-slow acceleration speed from start
-tricky start & landing from narrow beaches

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Re: just arrived a new 9mtr soul joins my family of foil kites, need advice!

Postby Foil » Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:41 am

Breze wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 8:04 pm
Well, flying like a LEI can mean a lot. Cloud, Edge, Torch are all LEIs, what they have in common is relaunch with one stearing line , 4 line depower and the tips don't come in. As the Soul.
Foil, have you thought about 21m lines instead of your 23m? It is also good to shorten the stearing lines on the Soul, gives a better feedback while downlooping high of the window
Its the lack of feedback/feeling, when the hite is high in the window, very unnerving as a few times the kite has not been where I thought it was, even falling behind me a bit, resulting in a few fancy kite catch episodes, pulling in on the bar to get some feeling has resulted in a few downloops resulting in the kite pinwheeling around too quickly without power, looks great, but not intended.
I am still not sure just where to set the depower after launching, more power and the kite feels great on the beach, then when in the water and I start using the kite for dragging out or getting up and going I have to depower lots to prevent the feeling of back stall creeping in and robbing power, then the feeling gets all wooly when the kite is high,and makes me feel nervous,and I am aware of me looking at the kites position, very not like me, I can normally just feel exactly where the kite is.
This uneasy feeling is real enough as yesterday the wind was blowing between 15knts and 20knts, good stiff wind, and I was too unsure about the way I am dealing with the 9 soul to take it out, and grabbed my 9 v2 hyperlink, the problem then was different as I had set up for the 9mtr soul by screwing on my 720 Baltz pro wing set, and already taken it to the waters edge, that's the wing set up I believe will be great with the soul, but not so much with the Hyperlink which is great on the 633 wing set for playing around in the lighter winds and small waves.
I can, as suggested, shorten my 23 mtr lines, and if I have to then I will, an hour on my workbench cutting and splicing is not a problem.
but is it just me who has not yet adjusted to the differences,
a soul beginner with bad kite habits.
anyways I am going out today on the soul, no matter what, if dave is there he has the 9mtr soul and loves it, but he has been using souls for years now,
I will ask him to take mine out for his feedback and advice.
if not, then it will be another days practice and understanding.

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Re: just arrived a new 9mtr soul joins my family of foil kites, need advice!

Postby downunder » Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:42 pm

I said many times that Soul is not Lei ;)

And not plug n play. It pulls like a train, even depowered. And this is scary in high winds.

But, 9m can be tuned for way better feel. And performance. Search shavethewhales post. He is local rider here who loops it hard. On 23m lines, I think.

D.
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Re: just arrived a new 9mtr soul joins my family of foil kites, need advice!

Postby juanpasala » Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:42 pm

Foil wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:41 am
Breze wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 8:04 pm
Well, flying like a LEI can mean a lot. Cloud, Edge, Torch are all LEIs, what they have in common is relaunch with one stearing line , 4 line depower and the tips don't come in. As the Soul.
Foil, have you thought about 21m lines instead of your 23m? It is also good to shorten the stearing lines on the Soul, gives a better feedback while downlooping high of the window
Its the lack of feedback/feeling, when the hite is high in the window, very unnerving as a few times the kite has not been where I thought it was, even falling behind me a bit, resulting in a few fancy kite catch episodes, pulling in on the bar to get some feeling has resulted in a few downloops resulting in the kite pinwheeling around too quickly without power, looks great, but not intended.
I am still not sure just where to set the depower after launching, more power and the kite feels great on the beach, then when in the water and I start using the kite for dragging out or getting up and going I have to depower lots to prevent the feeling of back stall creeping in and robbing power, then the feeling gets all wooly when the kite is high,and makes me feel nervous,and I am aware of me looking at the kites position, very not like me, I can normally just feel exactly where the kite is.
This uneasy feeling is real enough as yesterday the wind was blowing between 15knts and 20knts, good stiff wind, and I was too unsure about the way I am dealing with the 9 soul to take it out, and grabbed my 9 v2 hyperlink, the problem then was different as I had set up for the 9mtr soul by screwing on my 720 Baltz pro wing set, and already taken it to the waters edge, that's the wing set up I believe will be great with the soul, but not so much with the Hyperlink which is great on the 633 wing set for playing around in the lighter winds and small waves.
I can, as suggested, shorten my 23 mtr lines, and if I have to then I will, an hour on my workbench cutting and splicing is not a problem.
but is it just me who has not yet adjusted to the differences,
a soul beginner with bad kite habits.
anyways I am going out today on the soul, no matter what, if dave is there he has the 9mtr soul and loves it, but he has been using souls for years now,
I will ask him to take mine out for his feedback and advice.
if not, then it will be another days practice and understanding.
I ve had a full quiver of Souls (8 -10 -12 - 15), and I ve been flying them since they launched.
Taking into consideration that your bar setting is good fopr a normal LEI (all lines tensioned when trim is completelly released and bar is at full power), then the perfect setting for a soul should be between 10 and 15 cm of trim when using it for bootsing on a twintip, and fully released power when using whith a hydrofoil. The difference is due to the force that the kite has to make and the speed it reaches with the different disciplines.
Anyways, when I go out on my souls and on a twintip, i make a couple jumps, and try to get a feel of the behaviour of the kite while i am in the air, and then trim it accordingly; If I feel the kite is overflying (and even sometimes bringing me upwind), then I release the trim, and if i feel the kite is dropping me, then i trim it up a bit more. It is also important to note that when you jump with foil kites you cannot let them sit stationary for long, as they will eventually overfly, so you have to keep them moving above your head.

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Re: just arrived a new 9mtr soul joins my family of foil kites, need advice!

Postby SolarSet » Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:08 pm

juanpasala wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:42 pm
the perfect setting for a soul should be between 10 and 15 cm of trim when using it for bootsing on a twintip, and fully released power when using whith a hydrofoil. The difference is due to the force that the kite has to make and the speed it reaches with the different disciplines.
Are you suggesting that you should 'depower' soul by pulling trim strap by 10-15cm when riding TT? Some people think that opposite should be done and steering/back line should be shorten by few cm to make kite more responsive on TT.

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Re: just arrived a new 9mtr soul joins my family of foil kites, need advice!

Postby Janus » Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:15 pm

Bar line set up should be all lines equall at Full power. If you Like backstall possibilities you should add a few cm on front lines or pull the trimstrap a bit when setting up your bar.
For quicker response shorten your lines, I fly the 12 on shorter lines (-extensions) feels great, I prefer that on all my Souls but my son doesn’t..
If you are new to foils or don’t like the overflying feeling you shouldn’t put your kite at 12.. ;-) keep some tension on your back lines, pull the bar, don’t let it overfly, you are in control.
Check your mixer (all foil kiters should check them regularly, it really makes a difference)
For Soul do the long mixer test, put ABCZ equal ( check Armin’s vids). Check the flying, If you like it Or it’s good leave it like this. If not or you get tip collapses then shorten C with one cm, B will follow with 1/2. Check the flying again, better? Not? repeat again with C-1cm.
With for example C-2 (and thus B-1) it will less overfly. You can loose a bit performance.
When Waterstarting with foils don’t pull the bar all the way in.. you will be choking the kite.. you are flying a wing not just a kite..let it fly.. give it some time to adapt, you will get the feeling with the kite. And if that happens and you want softer bar feeling and force you can lengthen the tip LCL’s, Armin tipped this in the Soul topic. (And its working great on my 12 (+4cm and my 10 +2cm, my 6 is light enough..)
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Re: just arrived a new 9mtr soul joins my family of foil kites, need advice!

Postby Adventure Logs » Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:12 pm

SolarSet wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:08 pm
juanpasala wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:42 pm
the perfect setting for a soul should be between 10 and 15 cm of trim when using it for bootsing on a twintip, and fully released power when using whith a hydrofoil. The difference is due to the force that the kite has to make and the speed it reaches with the different disciplines.
Are you suggesting that you should 'depower' soul by pulling trim strap by 10-15cm when riding TT? Some people think that opposite should be done and steering/back line should be shorten by few cm to make kite more responsive on TT.
Souls use to like roughly 2cm shorter steering lines, I’m unsure if they have corrected this with the newer ones, I’d ask FS.

You must have had some LEIs with really heavy bar pressure because the Soul is much heavier than say the Speeds or Sonics(the Sonic3 is close to the Soul). I don’t need to look at the kite to know where it is or what it’s doing, my suggestion is just get more time underneath it to adjust.
downunder wrote: I said many times that Soul is not Lei ;)

And not plug n play. It pulls like a train, even depowered. And this is scary in high winds.

But, 9m can be tuned for way better feel. And performance. Search shavethewhales post. He is local rider here who loops it hard. On 23m lines, I think.

D.
Scary in high winds??? Really?? The Soul is the best behaving high wind foil kite I’ve flown. Grow some balls.

I use to take my Soul 15m in 25+ kts with confidence. It is extremely stable at those speeds even when gusting. While the new Sonic3 isn’t as stable as the Soul at those high winds, it’s pretty close and much more than the Sonic2.

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Re: just arrived a new 9mtr soul joins my family of foil kites, need advice!

Postby Foil » Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:43 am

downunder wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:42 pm
I said many times that Soul is not Lei ;)

And not plug n play. It pulls like a train, even depowered. And this is scary in high winds.

But, 9m can be tuned for way better feel. And performance. Search shavethewhales post. He is local rider here who loops it hard. On 23m lines, I think.

D.
This above sums up my experience on the 9mtr soul very well, however I only sail on a foil board now so the bit about getting to that scary point was happening just to quickly,just far too scary as well, yikes I sail in straps, and have never had to sail on my tip toes with kite high and just daring me to even try and bear off to make a turn, my "yeeeharr" was more of an "arghhhhh Noooo" save me shout as the shore line was getting to close too fast.
on a sensitive foil set up, that feeling makes for a wild and loose off wind knightmare, this is disappointing for me and not what I was wanting from my kites, and there are so many soul users out there who love their souls, many are on Ttips some on skims and maybe a few on wave boards, although I have not seen that myself, yet.
I guess we all need to get easier access to test our kites before purchase, foil kites are not cheap, and I can tell you the financial loss when this happens as it has to me, is too big to forget in a hurry,
its my fault completely of course, as downunders post above gives the information i needed to know.
and taking advice from a few replies I did shorten my lines to see if that helped, removed 3mtrs with some simple splicing, and it made very little difference that I could say really helped, but worked great for my 11mtr Chrono in the same winds that made for that scary episode on the 9 soul, so not a waste of time at all.

but to put this in a bit of context the feeling that suits me the most for maximum fun is delivered from a snappy fast kite, which hunts for the edge of the window in the gusts which makes power surges/spikes more mellow, light bar pressure but always giving positive feedback no matter where the kite is and what its being asked to do, able to loop quickly and if asked to- at the top of the window, allowing a reverse loop to the opposite side which then can be repeated over and over as I love to do S bending down a few small wave lines, for example my 11 chrono v3 ul is not the best at delivering this feeling, its good but not super snappy, and my larger chrono kite can get too close to the water when asked to spin too often whilst driving downwind, making me aware of the need to calm down before I catch a tip, this fast snappy looping quality of course is easily replicated by using a good wave lei, my small reo kites for example were great for this, but no way would I change back from my foil kites,
and to confirm to myself this required feeling then yesterday, after using my 11mtr chrono for a while, and feeling I was missing out on the conditions available I raced back in to shore changed to my 9mtr hyperlink v2 and raced out again to find the little area of decent small waves and had a great time.
we are all different, looking for different feelings to make us smile and scream yeeharr.
so my new soul now needs a new home, I part exchanged it, so all is good, and now I can stop getting all stressed out carrying my various foil kites down to the water for back to back testing.
enjoy your souls as much as I enjoy my choice of foils, thank god we have choices, I just wish my choice was cheaper like the souls.
:bye:
Last edited by Foil on Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: just arrived a new 9mtr soul joins my family of foil kites, need advice!

Postby downunder » Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:01 pm

[quote="Adventure Logs" post_id=1104158 time=1594833134 user_id=82562]
[quote=SolarSet post_id=1104063 time=1594757294 user_id=95553]
[quote=juanpasala post_id=1104011 time=1594734120 user_id=95192]
the perfect setting for a soul should be between 10 and 15 cm of trim when using it for bootsing on a twintip, and fully released power when using whith a hydrofoil. The difference is due to the force that the kite has to make and the speed it reaches with the different disciplines.
[/quote]

Are you suggesting that you should 'depower' soul by pulling trim strap by 10-15cm when riding TT? Some people think that opposite should be done and steering/back line should be shorten by few cm to make kite more responsive on TT.
[/quote]

Souls use to like roughly 2cm shorter steering lines, I’m unsure if they have corrected this with the newer ones, I’d ask FS.

You must have had some LEIs with really heavy bar pressure because the Soul is much heavier than say the Speeds or Sonics(the Sonic3 is close to the Soul). I don’t need to look at the kite to know where it is or what it’s doing, my suggestion is just get more time underneath it to adjust.

[quote=downunder]
I said many times that Soul is not Lei ;)

And not plug n play. It pulls like a train, even depowered. And this is scary in high winds.

But, 9m can be tuned for way better feel. And performance. Search shavethewhales post. He is local rider here who loops it hard. On 23m lines, I think.

D.
[/quote]

Scary in high winds??? Really?? The Soul is the best behaving high wind foil kite I’ve flown. Grow some balls.

I use to take my Soul 15m in 25+ kts with confidence. It is extremely stable at those speeds even when gusting. While the new Sonic3 isn’t as stable as the Soul at those high winds, it’s pretty close and much more than the Sonic2.
[/quote]


This is utter BS.

We all know you pimp Souls like no other and when anyone says anything contra you slam them with poor riding technique.

You must be a super human, or a Yank who just love to be loud on this forum.

Re my balls, you have no idea who you talking to.

As usual, tipical bully. But FH was no good, hey!?

Shall I paste here where you called me "fckn ignorant"?

Says everything about respecting my opinion. Or any other if is not like yours.

Grow some respect, or grow up anyway. The World is not spinning around you, even tho you trying hard.


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