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Re: Flysurfer Sonic Race vs VMG

Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:24 pm
by juanpasala
davesails7 wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:49 pm
I've owned multiple Sonic FR, Sonic 2, R1V2, and VMG.

Sonic FR was touchy.

Sonic 2 was way more stable and easy to use. Also very durable. Would be great for freeride. I tried the Sonic 2 11m back to back with the Speed 5 12m. Sonic 2 had better performance and just as stable for me.

R1V2 is just as stable as Sonic 2. R1V2 is definitely faster for racing, but it's less durable, and doesn't pivot turn like the Sonic 2, so I'd pick Sonic 2 for freeride over R1V2.

VMG is a racing machine. Seems less durable and has much less depower than the R1V2. I wouldn't recommend choosing it for freeride. You could use it, but it just doesn't seem like the advantages outweigh the negatives for free ride. I love it for racing.

I heard there were actually two versions of the sonic race. in 2018, they came out with different bridles because it continued as the IKA registered kite, and VMG was never registered. Does anyone know what difference the bridle change made for the Sonic Race?
Between Race and VMG they also reduced the aspect ratio of the VMG, so it is effetivvely shorter than sonic race.

Re: Flysurfer Sonic Race vs VMG

Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 5:02 am
by fernmanus
Yes the R1's are probably the most robust of the race variants... I don't consider Sonic 2 and 3 race kites in the pure sense and they are more robust as well.

With respect to boosting performance, this was mainly the reason we all went through race kite phases in our group. 10's of thousands of boosts and general results over the years would be Sonic2 = R1V2 = Soul. Sampling of Sonic Race and VMG never lasted long because they quickly became unreliable...although I did have good performance from a brand new Sonic Race 9m before I saw what was coming and got rid of it. Our highest boosters are on R1's and Souls. I suspect the Sonic 3 may be potentially a bit better but only time will tell. One of the reasons Souls are liked is the big wind range they can handle....you can ride at the upper end of the range of a size reasonably comfortably and really send them when you are good and ready.
The Sonic 3 is better for boosting than the Soul. However, it is not super noticeable, but it is there. Hang time is better too. However, the biggest difference is that the Sonic 3 has even more upper end to the point that I can ride my 18 with other riders my size are on 10 and 11m inflatable kites. Jumps are kind of crazy in this much wind, not going super high, maybe 10 meters, but over 75 meters downwind, you really have to make sure that there is a large opening downwind of you. I don't launch my kites in that much wind, but sometimes it is nice to finish out a session without the need to go in and launch a smaller kite. However, the stability is far better on the Soul, so for gusty winds, the Soul is going to be much more user friendly.

Re: Flysurfer Sonic Race vs VMG

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 11:08 pm
by twig
Alot of doubt about the race and vmg kites? Im starting to learn racing and have a sonic race9m, I feel its delicte but as long as im careful with it and as im into racing its a good kite. Still im not good enough yet to use all of its performance and Think about getting other kites just a bit less racey -to perhaps progress faster.

regarding the trimming, thats what I find the worst part. Some mention that they just want to get rid of the kites before the problem starts? Is it really that bad? Is it more to the trimming bit then mixertest? is the bridle shrinking faster then on the soul? most of the materials is the same as the soul right? but it has some dlx+ at the leading edge, and possibbly more robust inside. However if you dont crash much and dont jump it, is it still going to just decompose after 2-3 years?
I have a sonic fr that I like and it holds up very well. Then I got a sonic2 for cheap and it has Heavy use, and I never seem to be able to trim it, its like a riddle. I Think there should be more information from flysurfer regarding trimmning, I mean the stuff to do when the mixertest is not enough due to bridle shrinkage.
Im not sure what kites to invest in but I like the flysurfer Products. Im always looking for used products because I cannot afford the new toys.

Re: Flysurfer Sonic Race vs VMG

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 11:34 pm
by Adventure Logs
I bet your Sonic2 is backstalling a lot, right? Lengthening the Z lines will help in that.

What's nice about Flysurfer products is all the line lengths are published so if you have the time and patience, you can get a old kite back to near factory performance, you just will have to measure out every single bridle line. The only thing you really can't get back is the fabric aging but with the new fabrics FS is using, that really isn't an issue anymore.

With the Race/VMG, they are just MUCH more sensitive to bridle length changes where the older Speeds and the Soul aren't as much. An example is back in the day with my Speed4, I had a bridle line snap on a rock and was able to just tie the ends together and keep riding without much effect. On my Sonic2, something like that would have caused instability in the wing and could cause it to collapse. Most riders aren't willing to go through all the time required to check every single bridle line and would rather sell. I'm really curious how the VMG2 is going to deal with bridle shrinkage since there's only two levels. I would imagine it would be much easier to maintain. I bet what will cause more performance degradation will be the fiberglass rods. Hopefully those will be pretty cheap and it would be cool to have different options on stiffness/whatnot which would change the behavior of the wing to your preference. We really are in new territory with this design and I'm excited to see what happens.

=Jason-

Re: Flysurfer Sonic Race vs VMG

Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 4:24 pm
by Mossy 757
twig wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 11:08 pm
Alot of doubt about the race and vmg kites? Im starting to learn racing and have a sonic race9m, I feel its delicte but as long as im careful with it and as im into racing its a good kite.
That's exactly right, and for many years up until recently, this was a true statement about every foil kite.

Over the last 2 generations of foil kite designs, there has emerged this category that has ardently pursued competition with LEIs. The LEIs had relaunch, durability, and ease of use, but the foils we all know are just...better.

So there are now models for which what you wrote is mostly no longer true. 1 line relaunch, really beefy tunable bridles, great fabrics, etc.

All the while designers were trying to build foil kites that could eclipse LEIs, they were also taking their race kites in the opposite direction. This is largely a response to many professional or up and coming professional sailors getting into kitefoil racing and having more desire for 'single-regatta' equipment. What this means is that riders would buy a quiver of kites training/leading up to a major event, sell off the sizes they didn't need, then compete and sell off the sizes they had just used and get onto the next set of prototype or cutting edge gear for the next major race. This is why you can buy dirt-cheap Sonic Race and VMGs, because they were purchased with a specific campaign in mind and then passed down to the open class fleets and recreational riders.

For this reason, these kites are designed to perform really well for 1 campaign, then go away. That is not true for kites like the Soul and the Sonic3, but inherent in that fact are some compromises.

I have a Sonic2 11m and an R1V2 15m and really struggle to justify spending money on equipment less durable than those kites, and even the R1V2 makes me nervous sometimes. If I were buying gear for a regatta campaign and knew it would go away when I'm done, I'd be exclusively on VMG's.