Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

Jumping tips for foil kite on hydrofoil

For all foil kite riders
noahsw
Rare Poster
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2014 3:23 am
Local Beach: Seattle
Favorite Beaches: La Ventana
Style: Freeride foil
Gear: Souls on an LP Foil
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 2 times

Jumping tips for foil kite on hydrofoil

Postby noahsw » Sun Aug 09, 2020 4:32 am

I’m at the ~15 foot level and looking for tips to go higher. I’m on Souls and about to switch to Sonic3.

I’m looking for specific timing of sheeting, position of the kite during jump, etc. Also, I’ve been on 14m lines and wondering whether I should go back to 17m. Thx!

Foil
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1198
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:44 pm
Kiting since: 2000
Local Beach: NewBrighton beach-Derby pool end,Wallasey, near Liverpool for 6 months in summer
Flag beach on fuerteventura for 6 months in winter.
Favorite Beaches: Flag beach fuerteventura, off season/6months
Home - NewBrighton,Rhosneigr, Ainsdale, Fleetwood, Newbrough
Style: improving foiler.
Gear: Groove Skate 120,carbon 2020 edition
101cm + 82cm Moses Carbon masts
Moses- 633/483 on a 701 fuse
Moses- 720 balz pro/425 on longer 739 fuse
Ozone Hyperlink V1 ultra light 5mtr
Ozone V2 Hyperlink 7mtr + 9mtr
Ozone Chrono V3 UL foil kite 11mtr
Ozone compact V4 bars,click in,23 mtr lines
duotone click bar 2020
massive grin
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 94 times
Been thanked: 217 times

Re: Jumping tips for foil kite on hydrofoil

Postby Foil » Sun Aug 09, 2020 9:00 am

noahsw wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 4:32 am
I’m at the ~15 foot level and looking for tips to go higher. I’m on Souls and about to switch to Sonic3.

I’m looking for specific timing of sheeting, position of the kite during jump, etc. Also, I’ve been on 14m lines and wondering whether I should go back to 17m. Thx!
the faster you take off the higher you go is my finding, being powered up seems to work well up to a point then it works against me as control at speed diminishes as i bring the kite overhead just before take off, after coming off TTips its hard to dial out the old habits that worked so well, I still have to concentrate hard on kite position, and timing is mega more important to get that soft no touch down landing, and the practice I am putting in is silly,
landing is the problem from super high jumps as you are up there just so long and it feels unsafe just to hang around, so moving the kite too much is a big temptation and often results in redirecting too early which is then "arghh brace brace crash"
so for me high speed board control in the run up is the first key to good height.
bear off and speed up picking the smoothest line you can find, keeping the board as low as you dare, keeping the wings deep as possible,
pick a ramp to steer up to at speed, maybe 20 meters away,
focus on the ramp and harden up the angle of attack to it,
start bringing the kite up slowly to around 45deg, but feeling for more power all the time to keep the lines tight, timing this right takes lots of practice.
hit the ramp at the same time pulling up on your front strap with your toes curled upwards to hold on to the strap(tip-ensure the front foot is tight in the strap as its flipping scary if your front foot pings out as you lift up)(of course the back foot needs to be in good and tight)
at the moment just before take off wang the kite back to above your head and feel for kite position and pull as you release from the water,
keep the kite above your position as you go up, don't strangle the power away, feel the kite pulling up and if you feel a slight slowing down of rise push out the bar, to engage more lift and pull back in a little, if its gusty this re-engaging the power as you keep the kite directly overhead can give you mega float and more height,
if the wind is good and the kite size is big for the winds then you can keep rising just by keeping the bar "full out" and kite directly above, scary height at times,
descending is the hard part to get right,keeping the bar out will make you fall more quickly and pulling in hard will slow you quickly but then drop you fast at the last part, not great!
for me after lots of practice and thousands of epic crashes and shoulder strain caused by the arm going out to break my fall, I have finally found the most successful (for me) way to land
on the way down I steer slightly down wind, bar half out, kite just behind me, but only slightly, just enough to feel that pendulum swing backwards, as i swing back under the kite at around 2-3 mtrs above the surface harden up the back leg to almost straight, and pull hard in on the kite to slow down, and then just before touch down re-direct the kite hard, slightly downwind, as the wing enters the water keep my weight back on the rear leg and feel for a bit of kite lift
as I touch down on the board, sometimes it works well without the board touching, yeharrr! and sometimes i just barely kiss the surface, big smile, and less often
mostly when tired and legs wont behave than I explode in fine style, arghhh shi*
all this practice on my good jumping side, which is my weak side for boosting on a Ttip, weird!
now I need to read what I have written above and practice this on my foiling weak side, I am so bad at foil boosting on my weak side, and that feels so weird as that's my kite looping side when i used to use a Ttip.
line length is not that important, being powered up is for huge boosting, but if not greatly powered up then longer lines help more, but if you want the mega float of a large foil kite in strong winds then shorter lines will work well, but longer lines when on a big kite overpowered is just insanely good fun, scary but fun, you do worry about your lines when up there for long floaty periods, funny how your mind works when there's nothing to do as you are high and floating, or high and getting further gust boosts and extra height. thoughts like "maybe I should give my lines a propper inch by inch inspection before I do a big boosting session"gulp!

User avatar
deniska
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 810
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2013 3:40 pm
Local Beach: Plumb Beach
Favorite Beaches: Cabarete
Gear: Ozone, Core
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 30 times
Been thanked: 55 times

Re: Jumping tips for foil kite on hydrofoil

Postby deniska » Fri Aug 21, 2020 3:09 am

can you do more then 15ft on TT? If not, then maybe go back and practice until you get to, say, 30ft?
I don't think that kite control is any different between jumping foil and TT, you just tend to get more speed and hold more power with HF (well, at least with lower wind/bigger sizes)...As far as line length, I feel that for HF boosting the lines should be at least 20m.. I tried 17,20,24,27 and liked 20-24 the most.. 27 got good boosts but was a bit to slow for regular maneuvers with 15 soul.. Unlike TT, with HF you can use that slow kite climbing to 12 to get more speed while holding the edge

cor
Frequent Poster
Posts: 261
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2014 1:20 pm
Gear: -
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 91 times
Been thanked: 53 times

Re: Jumping tips for foil kite on hydrofoil

Postby cor » Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:07 am

noahsw wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 4:32 am
I’m at the ~15 foot level and looking for tips to go higher. I’m on Souls and about to switch to Sonic3.

I’m looking for specific timing of sheeting, position of the kite during jump, etc. Also, I’ve been on 14m lines and wondering whether I should go back to 17m. Thx!
Without a video it´s nearly impossible to help you. I can only assume why you can´t go higher, likely:
-imperfect timing
-not enough speed
-not sending the kite back fast enough
-not edging hard enough

Many come from TT to HF and think that they will jump higher. However, if you can´t properly jump on a TT then you will also not be able to jump properly on a HF because simply, the mechanics are the very same.

User avatar
downunder
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2287
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:16 am
Gear: building my own
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Perth, Australia
Has thanked: 78 times
Been thanked: 79 times

Re: Jumping tips for foil kite on hydrofoil

Postby downunder » Fri Aug 21, 2020 3:47 pm

^
Im puzzled about this?

The better we stomp the TT the better we take off.

Simply, no stomping, no high jumps. Proven on flat water by best I know off.

Now, how one stomps the HF ;)

Foil
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1198
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:44 pm
Kiting since: 2000
Local Beach: NewBrighton beach-Derby pool end,Wallasey, near Liverpool for 6 months in summer
Flag beach on fuerteventura for 6 months in winter.
Favorite Beaches: Flag beach fuerteventura, off season/6months
Home - NewBrighton,Rhosneigr, Ainsdale, Fleetwood, Newbrough
Style: improving foiler.
Gear: Groove Skate 120,carbon 2020 edition
101cm + 82cm Moses Carbon masts
Moses- 633/483 on a 701 fuse
Moses- 720 balz pro/425 on longer 739 fuse
Ozone Hyperlink V1 ultra light 5mtr
Ozone V2 Hyperlink 7mtr + 9mtr
Ozone Chrono V3 UL foil kite 11mtr
Ozone compact V4 bars,click in,23 mtr lines
duotone click bar 2020
massive grin
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 94 times
Been thanked: 217 times

Re: Jumping tips for foil kite on hydrofoil

Postby Foil » Fri Aug 21, 2020 5:41 pm

downunder wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 3:47 pm
^
Im puzzled about this?

The better we stomp the TT the better we take off.

Simply, no stomping, no high jumps. Proven on flat water by best I know off.

Now, how one stomps the HF ;)
the strangest thing that often happens in good conditions when boosting on a hydrofoil using a foil kite makes me smile when it happens,
on some take offs I get a springboard sound, like when you twang a ruler when held down on the edge of a table, just the same noise maybe more metallic.
cant get that on a Ttip, sounds so silly :rollgrin: :rollgrin:
this is not a joke!
of course its the 633 wing releasing under tension if the angle is not quite right on take off, my 720 baltz pro has not done the same boinggggggggg sound :rollgrin:

User avatar
deniska
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 810
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2013 3:40 pm
Local Beach: Plumb Beach
Favorite Beaches: Cabarete
Gear: Ozone, Core
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 30 times
Been thanked: 55 times

Re: Jumping tips for foil kite on hydrofoil

Postby deniska » Fri Aug 21, 2020 7:07 pm

633 is not the greatest for big airs and will probably break on bad landing..
for me it felt like it has too much lift when speeding up for a jump.
To the OP, you should check your gear.. some beginner foils are in fact are very hard to use for big airs..
Ideally you want freerace carbon rig from a respectable company... something that gets more stable with speed and not the other way around..

Foil
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1198
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:44 pm
Kiting since: 2000
Local Beach: NewBrighton beach-Derby pool end,Wallasey, near Liverpool for 6 months in summer
Flag beach on fuerteventura for 6 months in winter.
Favorite Beaches: Flag beach fuerteventura, off season/6months
Home - NewBrighton,Rhosneigr, Ainsdale, Fleetwood, Newbrough
Style: improving foiler.
Gear: Groove Skate 120,carbon 2020 edition
101cm + 82cm Moses Carbon masts
Moses- 633/483 on a 701 fuse
Moses- 720 balz pro/425 on longer 739 fuse
Ozone Hyperlink V1 ultra light 5mtr
Ozone V2 Hyperlink 7mtr + 9mtr
Ozone Chrono V3 UL foil kite 11mtr
Ozone compact V4 bars,click in,23 mtr lines
duotone click bar 2020
massive grin
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 94 times
Been thanked: 217 times

Re: Jumping tips for foil kite on hydrofoil

Postby Foil » Sat Aug 22, 2020 4:56 am

deniska wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 7:07 pm
633 is not the greatest for big airs and will probably break on bad landing..
for me it felt like it has too much lift when speeding up for a jump.
To the OP, you should check your gear.. some beginner foils are in fact are very hard to use for big airs..
Ideally you want freerace carbon rig from a respectable company... something that gets more stable with speed and not the other way around..
the 633 is just great for boosting, at our spot we all boost on the 633, yes we all have other wings as well which do give the opportunity to go even bigger in stiffer winds that's true,
but the point is -
boosting in very light airs is just not possible on low lift fast wings, you first of all need to get going, and that's were the 633 is the choice for all of us here who boost in marginal airs
and boost high, but of course we all use the latest high end foil kites as well.
as for damage to the 633 wing set on fast bad landings, who?where? when?
none here or anywhere I have been to, flag beach for months on end, again foil kites do help with soft landings, but yes I have had some wallops flat down on the wing which has made me cringe,
the only damage to wing sets that i know to have been confirmed is to a moses race wing 637 which was replaced under warranty, and to a soft aluminum mast with very thin side walls, that one I did see myself, it bent the mast, a beach side shop said you bent the Mast? followed by the brand name, yes they do bend we have had a few do the same he said, not replaced under warranty.
so fear not if you own a 633 wing set,
want to go boosting huge in silly light winds, the 633 is just great, in stronger winds a faster wing will be much easier to use and send you higher due to the extra speed on take off.
methinks some foilers use the "i don't jump because I only have a big wing and it might break excuse" just get up there and fly, no face mask required :thumb:

User avatar
downunder
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2287
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:16 am
Gear: building my own
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Perth, Australia
Has thanked: 78 times
Been thanked: 79 times

Re: Jumping tips for foil kite on hydrofoil

Postby downunder » Sat Aug 22, 2020 12:55 pm

Unfortunately, the 633 waiting period is about 3mnts atm.
But I am not nearly there to jump anyway.

Still the edging question remains, yes, we can sort of edge, but not nearly similar to TT edging and stomping.

D.

cwood
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 686
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2015 7:28 pm
Local Beach: Southern Ontario
Gear: Flysurfer
Moses Hydrofoil
Brand Affiliation: Moses, Flysurfer
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 66 times

Re: Jumping tips for foil kite on hydrofoil

Postby cwood » Sun Aug 23, 2020 12:58 pm

Foil wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 4:56 am
deniska wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 7:07 pm
633 is not the greatest for big airs and will probably break on bad landing..
for me it felt like it has too much lift when speeding up for a jump.
To the OP, you should check your gear.. some beginner foils are in fact are very hard to use for big airs..
Ideally you want freerace carbon rig from a respectable company... something that gets more stable with speed and not the other way around..
the 633 is just great for boosting, at our spot we all boost on the 633, yes we all have other wings as well which do give the opportunity to go even bigger in stiffer winds that's true,
but the point is -
boosting in very light airs is just not possible on low lift fast wings, you first of all need to get going, and that's were the 633 is the choice for all of us here who boost in marginal airs
and boost high, but of course we all use the latest high end foil kites as well.
as for damage to the 633 wing set on fast bad landings, who?where? when?
none here or anywhere I have been to, flag beach for months on end, again foil kites do help with soft landings, but yes I have had some wallops flat down on the wing which has made me cringe,
the only damage to wing sets that i know to have been confirmed is to a moses race wing 637 which was replaced under warranty, and to a soft aluminum mast with very thin side walls, that one I did see myself, it bent the mast, a beach side shop said you bent the Mast? followed by the brand name, yes they do bend we have had a few do the same he said, not replaced under warranty.
so fear not if you own a 633 wing set,
want to go boosting huge in silly light winds, the 633 is just great, in stronger winds a faster wing will be much easier to use and send you higher due to the extra speed on take off.
methinks some foilers use the "i don't jump because I only have a big wing and it might break excuse" just get up there and fly, no face mask required :thumb:
In my experience the 633 was ok for lower boosting / tricks but really not for height. I just can't get the release I need. Landing them feels like landing on a cafeteria tray. 679 is sporty enough to be reasonably boostable height wise...have been to 40 plus on it and landing is not as nasty. Anything else big (at least for me) needs a race wing. 637, 645 etc ...higher AR. Speed = energy = convertible to height...at all wind speeds. I have not broken a big wing...have broken 1 637 over thousands of boosts. 645 is holding up well.

Re height. Timing of send, pop and tension. Replicate pop on tt with wing tension, send timing is key and when it all comes together correctly you are also giving yourself a spring out of the water with the wing as you release that tension and reach the zenith with kite.


Return to “Foil Kites”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests