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Sonic or Soul for foiling progresion

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JoseTumaco
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Re: Sonic or Soul for foiling progresion

Postby JoseTumaco » Sun Aug 16, 2020 10:41 pm

Adventure Logs wrote:
Sun Aug 16, 2020 5:55 pm


What’s your weight/equipment? I ask because the 15m most likely is going to be a little too big for hydrofoiling. You are going to become over powered very quickly and the wind window for hydrofoiling is pretty small. I would recommend either the 12 or 10 Soul. With longer lines the 10m Soul will do you well but the 12 will give you a easier bottom end. What other kites are in your quiver. Could help determining the correct size.

=Jason-
Thanks a lot Jason, I also think 15 M could be too big. I am 75 kg, and I use a Mosses 91 mast, 550 wing. I normally foil in 10 knots constant wind. I also have a 12 M Hiperlink and 11m Ozone Edge. Perhaps 12 M Soul is the best option, but is very similar to my very old Hiperlink. Wich size do you recomend? Have you tested Hiperlink, what is the diference VS Soul? Thanks

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Re: Sonic or Soul for foiling progresion

Postby BOEMIX » Sun Aug 16, 2020 11:19 pm

I have both and if you compare to inflatable ozones, soul is an foil edge+enduro, and hyperlink is a foil enduro, so stable, good turning speed and average boost.

The plus the hyperlink has vs soul is that it could be ridden in open cell mode, so is my go to snowkite.

Just mu2 cents 👍
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JoseTumaco (Tue Aug 18, 2020 3:01 am)
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Foil
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Re: Sonic or Soul for foiling progresion

Postby Foil » Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:54 pm

you must get a go on the soul 12 or even just try one on the beach, so different in so many ways, you have been flying your Hyperlink v1 Ultralight for two years nearly every day, your used to the feel, the hyperlink ul is around 25% lighter than the soul, big difference you can easily feel and see in marginal winds,
the hyperlink feel through the bar is very different,
the hyperlink bridals are very different, no adjustments can be made on the "beach" apart from the yellow Z line, but the new bridals used by ozone over the last 3 years which are used on all hyperlinks v1 v2 and v3 chronos just dont need any adjustments as far as I have seen and experienced, top drawer orbit pulleys that are easy to maintain and they last. less tangle problems as the bridals are sort of smooth slippy, little things you know about and are used to,
The internal baffles you say are becoming fragile, yes they are fragile from new, and will tear if you crash hard nose down, but you just fix them yourself easily with tear-aid 1, quick and cheap, just pull the baffles through the nearest vent and tape up the tear using a bit of the tear-aid 1 tape, find a strip of it in the ozone new kite spares kit, permanent repair, no sewing, no repair shop needed, easy,
I have had one nose down smash in the last 12 months, fixed in 30 mins and back on the water.
Last edited by Foil on Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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JoseTumaco (Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:52 pm)
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Mossy 757
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Re: Sonic or Soul for foiling progresion

Postby Mossy 757 » Tue Aug 25, 2020 5:28 pm

To progress on the board, make the kite easier. To progress with the kite, make the board easier.

To be happy most days, optimize towards the center.

JoseTumaco
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Re: Sonic or Soul for foiling progresion

Postby JoseTumaco » Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:56 pm

Foil wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:54 pm
you must get a go on the soul 12 or even just try one on the beach, so different in so many ways, you have been flying your Hyperlink v1 Ultralight for two years nearly every day, your used to the feel, the hyperlink ul is around 25% lighter than the soul, big difference you can easily feel and see in marginal winds,
the hyperlink feel through the bar is very different,
the hyperlink bridals are very different, no adjustments can be made on the "beach" apart from the yellow Z line, but the new bridals used by ozone over the last 3 years which are used on all hyperlinks v1 v2 and v3 chronos just dont need any adjustments as far as I have seen and experienced, top drawer orbit pulleys that are easy to maintain and they last. less tangle problems as the bridals are sort of smooth slippy, little things you know about and are used to,
The internal baffles you say are becoming fragile, yes they are fragile from new, and will tear if you crash hard nose down, but you just fix them yourself easily with tear-aid 1, quick and cheap, just pull the baffles through the nearest vent and tape up the tear using a bit of the tear-aid 1 tape, find a strip of it in the ozone new kite spares kit, permanent repair, no sewing, no repair shop needed, easy,
I have had one nose down smash in the last 12 months, fixed in 30 mins and back on the water.
Thanks a lot for your advice. The problem is Where I Live no options to test Soul. In what se se is different feeling? (heavier yes) I am looking for a lasting kite, with good materials, because I foil 3/4 days a Week.

I have also learn to repair baffles, but I sew them, is it wrong to sew them?

Thanks

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Re: Sonic or Soul for foiling progresion

Postby Adventure Logs » Wed Aug 26, 2020 8:50 pm

The Soul will last longer, better fabric and adjustable bridle.
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JoseTumaco (Thu Aug 27, 2020 5:32 am)
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Foil
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Re: Sonic or Soul for foiling progresion

Postby Foil » Thu Aug 27, 2020 3:00 pm

JoseTumaco wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:56 pm
Foil wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:54 pm
you must get a go on the soul 12 or even just try one on the beach, so different in so many ways, you have been flying your Hyperlink v1 Ultralight for two years nearly every day, your used to the feel, the hyperlink ul is around 25% lighter than the soul, big difference you can easily feel and see in marginal winds,
the hyperlink feel through the bar is very different,
the hyperlink bridals are very different, no adjustments can be made on the "beach" apart from the yellow Z line, but the new bridals used by ozone over the last 3 years which are used on all hyperlinks v1 v2 and v3 chronos just dont need any adjustments as far as I have seen and experienced, top drawer orbit pulleys that are easy to maintain and they last. less tangle problems as the bridals are sort of smooth slippy, little things you know about and are used to,
The internal baffles you say are becoming fragile, yes they are fragile from new, and will tear if you crash hard nose down, but you just fix them yourself easily with tear-aid 1, quick and cheap, just pull the baffles through the nearest vent and tape up the tear using a bit of the tear-aid 1 tape, find a strip of it in the ozone new kite spares kit, permanent repair, no sewing, no repair shop needed, easy,
I have had one nose down smash in the last 12 months, fixed in 30 mins and back on the water.
Thanks a lot for your advice. The problem is Where I Live no options to test Soul. In what se se is different feeling? (heavier yes) I am looking for a lasting kite, with good materials, because I foil 3/4 days a Week.

I have also learn to repair baffles, but I sew them, is it wrong to sew them?

Thanks
mmm, no chance to test a soul is a problem,
in that case i can only make you aware of my experience when i bought the new soul only 10 weeks back, it is so different in feel that after trying so many different tips from soul owners who love them i just decided the differences were too big to get round and accept, the main problem it seems was that I was totally tuned into the Ozone foils, and had adapted to the way they feel and fly,
it took ages for me to come away from lei kites and feel 100% safe and happy with the hyperlinks and v3 Chrono from sizes of 15mtr down in all the steps to 5mtr hyperlink v1 ul, the 3 different models of ozone foil kites felt very samey, all with the same linear power curve when looping, same bar weight, same ability to just sit up there and hover, all with the same massive range, the bridals on all 3 models- the v3 chrono and any hyperlink version in all their various sizes, came with interchangeable speed systems as they are all exactly the same,(only the yellow z line is adjustable) and for good reason, I have not known anyone having to adjust them even after heavy use since they first came out,
the kites, all 3 versions mentioned are much lighter, 25%lighter than the same size soul, so no falling back in marginal airs or other slack line situations, the list goes on and the breaking point for me was being scared to death when i found myself powered on the 9mtr soul on the foil and not able to loop onto a turn, something i nearly always do on any of my other foil kites, the soul was a beast, suited to Ttips I am thinking where you can go with it or edge hard to kill some power, but not on the foil. crazy! being overpowered on my ozones is not the same problem, they all quickly rush to the front of the wind window, the V3 chrono even more so, and dump a bit of power to give me loads of confidence.
The baffles are very delicate on your V1 hyperlink, and we now know why, but the V2 has been changed and the baffles are way more robust as you can see, if it had not been for your post I would not have done the side by side comparison of the baffles, so that's a big thanks to you.
if I was you I know which choice of kite I would choose, and why.

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Re: Sonic or Soul for foiling progresion

Postby airsail » Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:58 am

I have a 12mtr Soul and recently purchased a Sonic 2 15mtr. I thought the Sonic would have better low end, which it does by maybe a knot but what has blown me away is the upper end. In wind strengths that the 12mtr Soul in getting fairly powered upwind, still comfortable but not needing any more, the 15mtr Sonic is in its zone, feels like I could hold a heap more power.
I’m guessing this is because the Sonic is sitting higher in the window where the soul being lower aspect sits deeper.
Unusually, if the wind looks like it might pick up, I use the sonic, rather than the soul. Turning speed is similar but the sonic having a large span needs slightly more room to get around, 360’s on either with downloop are no problem on either.
Haven’t used the Hyperlink, but if the question is between the Sonic and Soul, and you have some foil kite experience, the Sonic is brilliant, just wish I could afford a Sonic3.

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Re: Sonic or Soul for foiling progresion

Postby joriws » Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:09 am

In my opinion the Sonic2 (I had 15m size) is still a fantastic kite, very cutting in the air meaning flies to no-power-zone very quickly when you need to dump the power, just push the bar forward and carve and quickly you can stop. I upgraded my Sonic2 to Sonic3 (15m) and it is a move towards Soul (like FS chart says Sonic3 is combination of Sonic2 and Soul lines). It is a bit harder to stop than "aircutting" Sonic2 was. Heavier on bar too. But I upgraded it for low wind snowkiting and TT boosting.

For hydrofoil I mostly use Speed4 10lotus and Speed4 8dlx and once used my Peak4 5m. Speed4 8dlx IMO is very excellent hydrofoil kite, ultra fast in the air, very good depower without trimstrap which dumps all the power and wind range due to that, drifting nicely, you can trim bar for steerable backstall and over-pivot turn, 100% water launch/relaunch etc. I even beat all LEI opponents easily on my first snowkite race with Speed4 8dlx so the kite is magic in cutting air and giving riding angles.. I also have 2nd or 3rd hand Psycho4 6m but not yet tried that with hydrofoil.

At kiteforum there is also other thread using Pulse2 (from 2007ish) as hydrofoil-kite. I had third hand Pulse2-8m which was very nice on snow, flew beautiful and quick not-too-grunty-loops. I still regret selling it to my friend after 5 years. Good school kite too.

I mention these old kites to open eyes that "ancient" foil kites can be very cool with hydrofoil. So if you encounter such kite and you are on a budget you can get those virtually for free. Last winter I even saw Speed1 at snowkite event, still flew nicely and was in-tune.

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Re: Sonic or Soul for foiling progresion

Postby haare » Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:34 am

Pick Soul if you
- Want a kite that is easy to fly.
- That does not backstall easily.
- That behaves like a tube kite.
- That has decent upwind (not great) angles.
- That jumps well (they both do).
- That is very easy to relaunch.
- That is very easy to drift launch
- That is easy to handle in gusty coditions.

Note the phrasing Easy here. It is not better. it is just easier. Both kites can relaunch, drift launch, handle gusts etc.

Pick Sonic
- If you want better upwind angles
- wider wind range (for average kiter there is no difference. How ever experienced foil kiters will have more range (mainly can handle stronger wind) with higher aspect ratio kite because it flies farther in the wind window generating less pull)
- Jumps even better. Also you can jump a lot more because it goes better upwind.
- turns better (even though it means stalling)
- Tacking inc foot switch is far easier with sonic

However
- It is harder to use. For me this is actually a plus. Because it needs some work. Using soul is just boring to me.
- It will punish you if you let it to the edge of the wind window especially in gusty conditions
- Slack lines will often lead to bowtie. So you need to be able to keep tension in the lines.

About loops:
With higher aspect ratio kites you can loop them. However tighter loops dont generate as much power as with soul. So looping sonic is possible but it is trickier. If you stall the kite when looping it does not generate power.

About size:
10 knots and 75kg => I would pick 12m (soul) -13m (sonic) kite. Personally in those conditions I (80kg, 800cm2 front wing) use 18m kite, but it is just because I like to jump and love hang time! :thumb:
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